Sunday, April 8, 2012

The Great (film) Debates vol. 33

We've asked about comedians and we'll ask again because we're funny that way. In the meantime, what is your favorite comedy?

What is your favorite comedy?


Panelist: ScottDS

The Blues Brothers, which is saying something since it's really not a laugh-out-loud film. It's not even just a comedy - it's also an action film and a musical. It's also very quotable and one of the things I love is that it really creates an epic world: the history of Jake and Elwood, the mysteries of the Bluesmobile, even the city of Chicago itself - one gets the sense it's all part of a larger picture. The performances are all great, the musical numbers are toe-tapping, and there's an authentically gritty aspect to the movie that can't be duplicated. My number one Hollywood "holy grail" is the complete roadshow version of the film, which had even more music and mayhem. Unfortunately, all the unused footage was thrown away in the 80s - one deleted song survives in audio form.

Panelist: AndrewPrice

This is such a hard one because comedies are so different. You've got the really great Night At the Opera, which is a true classic. You've got the laugh yourself silly Airplane or Blazing Saddles, which are in a different class again. But my personal favorite is Ghostbusters, which has it all -- a variety of great jokes, some feel-good moments, and a truly solid story.

Panelist: T-Rav

Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Kind of an odd choice, because I'm not a huge fan of Monty Python in general; but between the opening credits, the knights who say "Ni!", the Holy Hand Grenade, and so much else, I find it hilarious throughout. I think I like it because it's just so ridiculous and surreal (Blazing Saddles is my second favorite for similar reasons).

Panelist: Tennessee Jed

An honest to god tie between Animal House and Fast Times at Ridgemont High. If forced, I'd go with the former, probably on the strength of the scene where the Deltas go see Otis Day and the Nights, although Ridgemont does have the scene with Judge Reinhold and Phoebe Cates as a pretty fair answer.

Comments? Thoughts?

144 comments:

Tennessee Jed said...

loved the choices here, and I agree with Andrew; there are so many different kinds of comedies. T-Rav - not sure how I forgot "Grail." My favorite skit was Brave Sir Robin, but loved the line where the one King says "I don't see it so much as I'm losing a daughter as that I'm gaining a son in a very real, and legally binding sense." :)

Ghostbusters was a very fine film, although for whatever reason, I didn't quite bust a gut laughing at that one. Scott - same with the Blues Brothers. As a film it was terrific, but perhaps Bluto is just such an endearing character. :)

Tennessee Jed said...

Peter Graves in Airplane. Something of a different role than Jim Phelps, I'd say.

Joel Farnham said...

Comedy is one of those purely subjective feelings. In thinking over the selections, I will have to go with Smokey and the Bandit if only because of Jackie Gleason being allowed to go so far over the top that he set the standard for the typical Southern Redneck Cop. You sombeech! and who can ever forget There's no way, *no* way that you came from *my* loins. Soon as I get home, first thing I'm gonna do is punch yo mamma in da mouth!

T-Rav said...

Jed:

"Pardon me, but I thought your son was a girl!"

"Oh, well I can certainly understand that."

Mike K. said...

We just had a 'Top Five' question at Threedonia on what our most quotable comedies are. I chose Holy Grail, Spinal Tap, Young Frankenstein, The Blues Brothers, and The Jerk. (I'd post a link, but I'm having trouble pasting it here with my iPod.)

If the question hadn't specified 'quotable,' I'd have substituted Best in Show for Blues Brothers, because I agree with ScottDS that although it has many funny lines, I don't think of it as a comedy, but as a surreal musical quest story.

ScottDS said...

I find it interesting (and kind of awesome) that all of our choices come from the 70s and 80s and director John Landis is represented twice!

Andrew - I love all the other films you mentioned and Ghostbusters frequently alternates with The Blues Brothers for my favorite comedy - you simply caught me on an off-week. As for the Marx Brothers, the one film of theirs that I've really gotten into in recent years is Animal Crackers. As a kid, I thought it was kinda boring but watching it as an adult, I get all the wordplay and humor that might've gone over my 10-year old head.

T-Rav - I saw Holy Grail in a small movie theater in Tallahassee during the brief time I spent as an FSU student. I had never seen any Monty Python film before and I think I became a fan in about 10 minutes! I still haven't watched any episodes of their show; I've only seen the films.

Jed - Animal House is a classic and my dad and I quote it all the time. In fact, I have him to thank for getting me into all the late 70s/early 80s SNL movies (this, The Blues Brothers, Stripes, etc.). I showed Animal House to a friend a few years ago and while he thought it was a bit slow and dated, he also recognized the huge influence it continues to have on comedies today.

EricP said...

Because I failed to mention it in the Threedonia list Mike K cited above, and because it's my favorite black comedy, saving the speeches for Malcolm X and going with Heathers.

tryanmax said...

I am very picky when it comes to comedy. That doesn't mean my tastes are refined. I'm more like the kid who eats mostly cheeseburgers and pizza. I love Mel Brooks across the board. I can't say any of his are my favorite, though I must nod to Young Frankenstein, the quintessential film parody in my book.

I think I'm gonna have to go with Office Space because it is the only comedy I can think of where glimpsing a single frame will suck me in to watching the whole thing.

Outlaw13 said...

I'd like to put in a plug for my favoirte comedy post Y2K, Super Troopers (well that and Team America...but that's in a catagory of its own). Just about everything else Broken Lizard has done was pretty bad...but for some reason I can watch Super Toopers over and over again. And it has Afghanimation!

As to older stuff, Caddyshack and Stripes never fail to tickle my funnybone.

I remember watching What's Up Doc? back when I was a kid and finding it hilarious, but I haven't seen it since then...so it could possibly suck, I mean it has Barbara Streisand in it.

tryanmax said...

BTW, Robert Goulet and I wish everyone a Happy Easter

AndrewPrice said...

Morning everyone. As an aside, I just saw that Mike Wallace of 60 Minutes died. Despite being a liberal, I did always like him. RIP.

AndrewPrice said...

As usual, excellent choices by everyone! I can't disagree with any of them.

The one thing I would say, is that Fast Times At Ridgemont High has not held up well for me. It seemed a lot funnier as a kid than it does today.

AndrewPrice said...

Jed and T-Rav, That whole sequence was awesome! My personal favorite though is still the French guy on the wall. "I fart in your general direction..." Those scenes just had me rolling on the floor. What a bunch of genius comedians!

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, Without Gleeson, that would have been a rather dull film. He absolutely made that film. I love the line: "when I get home, I'm gonna punch yo momma in the mouth." LOL!

You're right about comedy being so broad that it's hard to pick a favorite. In fact, this is one of things where the more you think about it, the more you change your mind. But that's a good thing, I think.

As Jed mentions above, Ghostbusters was never the most drop-dead funny film for me, but to me, it's the most long-term enjoyable. It makes me happy. For just laugh out loud funny, the first time I saw Airplane would have been it.

AndrewPrice said...

Mike, I saw that. We had some cross-over on the lists.

Here is the link to the Threedonia article: LINK


Excellent choices, by the way. On The Jerk, I didn't get it when I was younger, but as I've grown older I've come to appreciate it a lot more. At the time, Martin didn't seem all that special to me, but in hindsight he really has stood out.

Floyd R. Turbo said...

My Man Godfrey... it makes me laugh every time.

Young Frankenstein

Dumb and Dumber -- probably because it was my favorite movie-going experience in terms of sheer shared laughing... the bathroom scene is a pinnacle of low-brow comedy. And if that makes me 12 forever then so be it. The theater was rolling and it lifted the movie up... it was the darndest thing.

I also like Super Troopers and like Outlaw -- I can see it multiple times and LOL every time. I worked for the state police in Texas back in the 1990s (as a lawyer) and also with local police and the tone of that movie is pitch perfect.

AndrewPrice said...

Scott, The 70s/80s were a special time for comedy! I can't think of a lot of modern comedies that people will be talking about in 20 years -- and even the 1990s only had a couple and they don't general get listed as "favorites."

I love Blues Brothers and could easily swap that out for Ghostbusters except Ghostbusters is still the one I reach for when I look for a fun movie.

The Marx Brothers (as our friends from Threedonia can attest) are easily the greatest comedy team of all time. The things they did were just amazing and the wordplay is what sold me on them. My top 3 favorites (in order) are Night At the Opera, Duck Soup, Animal Crackers. I would put all three of those in a top 10 of comedies -- think about what for an achievement that is. Who else could claim that many films in the top 10? Dan Akyrod, maybe Bill Murray?

AndrewPrice said...

Eric, Heathers truly makes me cringe. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it and thought it was brilliant, but that movie makes me very uncomfortable. I think they get away with too much.

AndrewPrice said...

tryanmax, Office Space is awesome! And unique. Interestingly, it's been copied a million times now and no one comes close.

On Mel Brooks, my favorite is Blazing Saddles. I like that it's more edgy than Young Frankenstein.

Joel Farnham said...

Andrew,

You are so right about movies that stick with you.

The first movie that I laughed all the way through is Six of a Kind. Gracie Allen, George Burns, W.C. Fields, Charles Ruggles, Mary Boland plus a Great Dane casually referred to as a polo pony, have "interesting times" on a cross-country trip. This review has one spoiler which is hilarious on screen. Don't read it if you want to experience the movie in full.

AndrewPrice said...

Outlaw, I wish the Broken Lizard stuff was better. I wanted to like Beerfest and I thought it had potential, but it just never quite worked. Super Troopers was pretty good though.

I love Team America -- and South Park The Movie!

Caddyshack is fantastic. I can watch that over and over and never stop laughing.

AndrewPrice said...

Floyd, "pinnacle of low-brow comedy" -- nicely put! :)

I actually don't know My Man Godfrey?

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, I haven't seen that, but I always like George Burns -- especially his 1970s appearances in films like Oh, God.

I do think there is something to that idea though, that the best comedies are those you can re-watch time and again and just enjoy.

Joel Farnham said...

I screwed up the LINK. the first time through. DON'T read it if you are planning on seeing Six of a Kind.

ScottDS said...

Andrew -

If anyone could claim multiple films in the Top 10, it'd be Harold Ramis (both as actor, writer, and director): Animal House, Stripes, Caddyshack, Ghostbusters, and National Lampoon's Vacation are all modern comedy classics. That's half the list right there!

Tennessee Jed said...

some others I considered: This is Spinal Tap and Best in Show; Ferris Buehler's Day Off; A Fish Called Wanda; and "The Vacation Franchise."

Tennessee Jed said...

. . . and I agree with Outlaw, when it comes to tears of laughter rolling down one's cheeks: "I promise . . I will never die." Team America World Police.

AndrewPrice said...

True. Ramis would be there. Brooks would be there and the Marx Brothers would be there. Possibly the Zucker Brothers/Proft. After that, I can think of people like Eddie Murphy would who had a great career, but has fallen away in hindsight. Chevy Chase might count too, though I'm not sure his films are Top 10 (e.g. Fletch).

AndrewPrice said...

Jed, More excellent additions! I do have to say though that I am not a fan of Spinal Tap. It just doesn't click with me.

Team America is hilarious!

DUQ said...

I've been watching Police Academy 1/2/3 and I still love those films!

Tennessee Jed said...

I think the thing about Christopher Guest's comedy group is they are fabulous at poking fun at a particular thing. How funny any of them might be will depend upon how a person feels about the thing that is being lampooned. If one has zero interest in a subject, clearly it will not be as funny. "A Mighty Wind" is a great example. To truly appreciate the humor, it helps to be aware of the New York City Jewish influence on commercially popularizing folk music in the early 60's. Think Peter Paul & Mary.

Likewise, Best in Show works best if the viewer has at least seen Westminster on t.v. and has a knowledge of the politics and snobbery of high level pure bread dog shows. Same for Spinal Tap and heavy metal glam rock.

Joel Farnham said...

I just saw this at Day by Day Cartoon. Puts it all into perspective.

ScottDS said...

Mel Brooks would definitely be on the list. I actually just watched the one Mel Brooks movie I'd never seen before: Life Stinks was on TV the other night. It's not a parody and is unlike anything he'd done before or since. It's cute and funny at times but it also has a serious streak as well.

I still haven't seen Team America. (I know, I know...)

I love Spinal Tap... I don't think I got it when I was younger but I was given the DVD as a gift when I worked at MGM and I've loved it ever since.

A Fish Called Wanda has been on TV a lot lately. Talk about a cast that makes it look easy! Kevin Kline won an Oscar for his performance and the Academy usually thumbs its nose at comedies. I saw the Academy Awards clip on YouTube and Kline was given his Oscar by none other than Sean Connery, Roger Moore, and Michael Caine - I would pay to see those three share a stage again!

I don't care what anyone says. I still think Eddie Murphy has one more classic comedy in him.

AndrewPrice said...

DUQ, Those are fun films!

AndrewPrice said...

Jed, I think that's right, that you have to have an affinity for the things he's lampooning. But even beyond that, I'm just not a fan of his style. I don't personally like his pacing.

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, Nice use of Leslie Neilson.

AndrewPrice said...

Scott, Fish Called Wanda is a neat film precisely because they make it all look so easy. You never once feel like they are stretching to get the humor, even though each scene is just hilarious and is packed with things that in other movies would seem faked.

Eddie Murphy has had a heck of a career, but I wonder if it will be forgotten? A lot of what he did now looks dated and you never really hear his movies mentioned in the same breath with the "greats." I suspect his recent string of misses is clouding the view of his successes. It will be interesting to see what people make of him in 40 years.

Doc Whoa said...

I'm going to side with Andrew on Murphy. He was great, but I don't hear his name come up when people talk about great comedians anymore. I loved his movies (Beverly Hills Cop, Coming to America, Trading Places, Nutty Professor), but too many people now mention Pluto Nash and a host of other recent misses.

Doc Whoa said...

My favorite comedy, since you asked, is Neil Simon's Murder By Death.

ellenB said...

This was mentioned the other day, "Better Off Dead."

AndrewPrice said...

Doc, Believe it or not, I liked Pluto Nash, but I seem to be the only one. :(

On Murphy, he would easily have several in my Top 10, but I don't think he would be in the public's Top 10 anymore -- too many sequels, too many later failures. I think he needs to find a huge hit to restore his reputation.

Murder By Death is awesome!

AndrewPrice said...

Ellen, Better Off Dead is probably my favorite 1980s film! :)

T-Rav said...

Scott, I had never seen any Monty Python stuff before either, and I'm not such a big fan of the series or the other movies, but as for Holy Grail, I was hooked by the end of the opening credits. The moose thing alone had me in stitches. :-)

ScottDS said...

Murder by Death has my all-time favorite butler name: Alec Guiness as "Bensonmum." :-)

Better Off Dead is a trip. I only saw it for the first time in 2003 after hearing about it for years. In fact, I should probably watch it again one day soon. The girl who played the foreign exchange student also played one of the princesses in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. And David Ogden Stiers plays an excellent deadpan father.

Heathers is another movie I need to see again. I remember enjoying it when I first saw it, especially some of the more, uh, florid dialogue. I'm surprised other films haven't quoted from this one: "F--- me gently with a chainsaw!" (This is one of those films that would probably never get made today.)

I also enjoy the Hot Shots! films, the second one more so than the first. "War... it's fantastic!"

You know what movie has its moments? Airplane II which was NOT written or directed by the Zucker/Abrahams team (they once admitted that they've never seen it). It's not as good as the first film but there are some bizarre gags in it and it's worth it for William Shatner's scenes and he has one of my favorite comedy lines: "I guess irony can be pretty ironic sometimes."

T-Rav said...

Andrew, Blazing Saddles is certainly my favorite Mel Brooks film--Young Frankenstein is good, but a bit weird for me. There are a lot of great performances in that movie, but I think my favorite is Harvey Korman as Hedley Lamarr. "'Cut them off at the pass'?! I HATE that cliche!"

AndrewPrice said...

T-Rav, Holy Grail truly stands apart. I do like the rest a lot though.

AndrewPrice said...

T-Rav, I LOVE Blazing Saddles! So much of it is memorable and quotable. And so many of the performances were just fantastic. My favorite moment is when they start singing: "I get no kick from champagne...."

AndrewPrice said...

Scott, Strangely, when it comes to the "pure gag" films like Airplane, I often like the sequels better. I think it's probably because they need to try harder to get the same kick, so they reach a little further.

Better Off Dead is just a great film all around.

And no, they would not make Heathers today because everything about that film is "wrong" now. They don't like insecure female leads, they don't like anti-gay humor, and they don't like cold-blooded murderers. So I think Hollywood would not make that film now.

Outlaw13 said...

Speaking of Eddie Murphy, Trading Places is a very funny film, always good for a laugh. He was also in Bowfinger...which was really good. His stand up films were some of the most side spilitting stuff I've ever seen and nobody would say some of that stuff today...because well you know you can't offend someone.

Anyone who loves William Shatner owes it to themselves to watch Free Enterprise...he plays himself and it's really funny.

AndrewPrice said...

Outlaw, His standup routines were the best I've seen. I still remember half his routines, they were that good.

Joel Farnham said...

This is way off topic, but there is no Open thread now.

There is an article by Derbyshire that got him fired. I read the article in question and the only thing I can say is I had to live with that.

This Article is explosive! I can see why he was fired. Some things are too difficult to talk about. He was fired because National Review is too Politically Correct.

All Derbyshire did was create a version of "The Talk" for non-blacks. Am I missing something here?

One Black Version of "The Talk".

United Citizens Council said...

Derbyshire did nothing wrong, he was responding in kind. NRO is dead to me anyways, girly men.

....

My favorite comedy... are the really old sitcoms like Honeymooners... the puppet guy Jeff Dunnem [sic]... comic strips like Wizard of Id and BC... Red Dwarf the UK television show... the Red Green Show from Canada was good too.

ScottDS said...

Outlaw -

I thought I was the only one who'd ever seen Free Enterprise! When I lived in LA, I was briefly acquainted with the film's co-writer/director. His day job is producing DVD extras and he's a really cool guy... not to mention the fact that he is both a ladies' man and a huge geek. (Not all of us Trekkies can operate in both worlds!) :-)

The thing one has to remember about this film is it was produced before Shatner had his "ironic comeback" in Priceline ads, Boston Legal, etc.. In the mid-90s when the film was made, Shatner was, to quote the director, "doing Jeff Speakman movies!"

T-Rav said...

I heard that Murphy was fairly good (albeit underused) in Tower Heist last year. Haven't seen it, so I don't know. I think he's gotten to the point where he's just trading on his name, so he can afford to mail it in.

AndrewPrice said...

T-Rav, He hasn't really "reached" for anything great in years now. I can't think of the last time I thought he really put "the Eddie Murphy" stamp on a picture. Maybe The Nutty Professor?

AndrewPrice said...

UCC, I have no idea.

AndrewPrice said...

Scott, Shatner has just impressed the heck out of me in the past couple decades. He wrote a book, he's found a second iconic-character, he's proven to have a great sense of humor and is fantastic to the fans. Of all the actors in Hollywood today, he seems like he would be the coolest to be around.

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, It doesn't help conservatism to have people writing articles which can be seen as racist. There is a difference between being PC and just being smart.

As for Derbyshire himself, he's the reason I cancelled my subscription years ago. The magazine had lost its sense of humor and it wasn't turning out worthwhile analysis for some time. Then Derbyshire wrote this garbage about how he killed a pet turtle and he tried to equate that with conservatism and it struck me the whole thing was just sick, and it was not the kind of message conservatives should be sending. The guy is a fool.

K said...

Dr. Strangelove.

Brilliant movie. I perceived it as the standard anti-military farce of the time, but subsequently read an analysis which pointed out that it really goes after all sides - e.g. the dooms day device was constructed based on a false leak from the NY Times - which must have been happening then as well. Besides, I love the Slim Pickens line "Nook-lar combat toe to toe with the Rookskis!"

Floyd R. Turbo said...

The Shat's interview show on Biography ("Raw Nerve") was great also. He interviewed Rush Limbaugh and even thouAgh he's a lib he is really generous and wants to understand Rush. Shat didn't seem like the deepest thinker in the world, but seemed genuinely wanting to have a good discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFvFmlb1C_Y

Andrew... I think you'd love My Man Godfrey -- it's on Netflix Streaming. William Powell is great.

AndrewPrice said...

K, That is a brilliant film! I never saw it as anti-war for the simple reason that it's so WAY OVER THE TOP! Nothing in it could happen in real life and nothing about it makes sense. If anything, it's lampooning the views of the peace movement who thought any of this was possible.

I even love the dig at the anti-fluoride crowd... "it saps a man's essence." LOL!

AndrewPrice said...

Floyd, I'll have to check it out.

I have always thought Shatner's greatest trait (since the 1980s at least) has been that he is fair to everyone and good-natured about everything. And that is quite an achievement given the truly petty, self-centered, and insane people he's saddled with as follow TOS crew.

tryanmax said...

Andrew, Joel,

A better point would would have been made (not that Derbyshire could make it) if it was explained that whites have the exact same talk with their kids about the police, minus the racial overtones.

The problem with "the talk" as related by the NY Post is that it teaches the next generation of blacks to assume that all actions by authorities are racially motivated. The white version of the talk just teaches young people that cops can be jerks sometimes and to deal with it.

AndrewPrice said...

tryanmax, That would have been the much better route to go -- to point out that whites also tell their kids to be "respectful" of cops and others in authority and to do what they are told by cops and others in authority. And that "the talk" as the NYPost describes it is racist as it injects race into something that is not related to race.

ScottDS said...

"I... deny them my essence."

Dr. Strangelove is another movie I watched when I was too young to appreciate it. Eventually, I picked up the DVD (I've got it on Blu now - it looks great) and I enjoyed it. It's also one of the few films we watched in class at film school. I don't even remember what class it was but I think most of the laughter accompanied the scene with Ripper and Mandrake: "The string... the string in my leg is broken."

I, like many others, love George C. Scott in the film: "We cannot allow a mine-shaft gap!!"

You know, it originally ended with a pie fight?

ScottDS said...

Also...

We need another Dr. Strangelove-type movie for today but I doubt there is any screenwriter smart enough to do it.

AndrewPrice said...

Scott, I don't see a lot of smart screenwriters. But even if you found one, the bigger problem is that no one will produce the film because Hollywood has changed its priorities -- "big shinies" only.

I was too young when I watched it the first time too. It wasn't sure what to make of it. But I watched it again years later and that's when I noticed all the subtleties and cleverness.

Scott is a genius in that film!

Outlaw13 said...

For those who have never seen Free Enterprise check THIS out.

I always thought the part where Peter Sellers was arguing with Kennan Wynn's paratrooper was hilarious, and having been in the Army for over 20 years pretty much true.

Here's the SCENE

AndrewPrice said...

Outlaw, That was hilarious! "I always used a stunt double... except in love scenes." LOL!

ScottDS said...

Speaking of Shatner, this link should be in BH's bulletin tomorrow:

Shatner ain't afraid of no ghosts!

AndrewPrice said...

Nice! So he's the "fifth Ghostbuster"? (like the fifth Beatle)

T-Rav said...

How can you kill a turtle? Jeez, even I have my limits.

AndrewPrice said...

T-Rav, I barely remember the article at this point, but it wasn't just killing it. If I remember correctly, he had no good reason for killing it and then he did in a rather slow, brutal way. And he was proud of himself for doing this and was equating it to conservatism somehow. It struck me as just some sick f** who gets off on killing small animals trying to make himself sound macho.

Joel Farnham said...

Well, National Review Online has done something that shows Eric Holder was right, at least about NRO. When it comes to Race, NRO's people ARE COWARDS and should be ignored from this point on.

NRO could have just fired him about his turtle fantasies and no one would have cared. Now, NRO has shown once again, that ALL CONSERVATIVES are afraid of frank talk about RACE and would rather fire a writer because he talked just as frankly about race as blacks do.

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, NRO is from that school of surrender-conservatives who cower before liberal attacks (circa-1990s). Of course they were going to surrender. I think they should have canned Derbyshire, but they should have counter-attacked at the same time by pointing out the racism inherent in "the talk" and they should have said they won't accept it from white or black.

Joel Farnham said...

Yes, I know it is unfair, rude and wrong article, that happens to resonate. Oh well.

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, I'm not seeing a lot of support for Derbyshire out there.

Joel Farnham said...

I went to a few. I haven't go to HuffPo though. It is resonating. It might even cause NRO to become a forgotten magazine.

It is resonating with the audience, NOT the ones who normally stand for conservative talk. I am also talking about people who DON't write articles.

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, It will be interesting to see what Rush et al. say about it tomorrow -- if anything.

What I'm seeing is a lot of no-support for Derbyshire, but anger that no one has pointed out that "the talk" is racist.

Commander Max said...

There were so funny films, it's hard to recall.
Galaxy Quest, it really hit Trek where it needed it. "... it's real."
"I knew it!"

Spaced Invaders, that was funny all around.
"Kids, 3D and driving just don't mix".

Both Cannonball's most of the funniest stuff in those movies was improv.

UHF-has to be one of the funniest movies of all time.

Young Einstein
Porky's
Meatball's
Stripes
History of the world, Part one
Smoky and the bandit
The Producer's
Ice Pirates
Time Bandits
My Chauffeur
Amazon Women on the Moon
Earth Girls are easy
Ferris Beuller's Day Off
Weird Science
Better Off Dead
One Crazy Summer
Revenge of the Nerds
Top Secret
Sixteen Candles
Back to School
Beetlejuice
Monty Python and the Holy Grail
Caddyshack
Bachelor Party
Just One of the Guys
Once Bitten
Free Enterprise or everything that will never happen to a Trekkie.
The Hollywood Knights-"that's impossible he grabbed it with his..."

This is another topic I could go on all day over.

AndrewPrice said...

Max, Excellent list! I notice Ice Pirates on your list! That's a rare and really underrated movie. I love that one, but you never ever see it on television.

The Canonball movies are great too. I love those. They capture the American love of the roads perfectly!

Joel Farnham said...

What I am also seeing is almost no refutation or "refudiating" of his article.

ScottDS said...

Cmdr. Max -

-Porky's is harmless fun but to this day, I can't tell the characters apart. They're all more or less interchangeable (and there are too many of them!). And I find it odd that a lot of the laughs come from watching other people laughing, but that's just me.

-Beetlejuice is, my opinion, Tim Burton's most interesting film. Not necessarily his best, but his most interesting one. I had it on tape along with Ghostbusters and needless to say, that tape got a lot of mileage when I was 7 years old!

-Bachelor Party is a riot! It's just one of those fun movies with enough energy and enthusiasm for three other films. The shot of the hotel manager screaming when the elevator opens revealing the dead donkey still makes me laugh out loud.

-Free Enterprise - I was briefly acquainted with the film's co-writer/director when I lived in LA and he manages to walk that line between geek and ladies' man, comfortably existing in both worlds. God, do I envy him sometimes. :-)

-Top Secret! - I've always liked this movie but whenever I read interviews with the Zucker/Abrahams team, they always come across as being disappointed with the film. It wasn't as successful as Airplane! and if you take away the jokes, the plot doesn't really make sense. At least the plot of Airplane! makes sense on its own without the jokes.

"How do we know he's not Mel Torme?" :-)

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, That's why it will be interesting to see what talk radio says tomorrow. Since they've had the weekend to think about it, I'll bet they go on the offensive.

AndrewPrice said...

Scott, Top Secret has always been a bit of the red-headed stepchild of the Airport franchise. I think it's lacking in some key areas, like the plot making sense, but it does have its moments and I enjoy it a lot.

tryanmax said...

Wow! The great comedies just keep on coming. I was going to throw out some more titles, but all but the ones I was going to add already have been.

All but one that is: Snatch. Which tells you exactly how bizarre my sense of humor is. I remember going to see that with a friend of mine, and we were literally the only two people laughing in the theater. I think it caught everyone else off guard. There were even a few folks who walked out (only one of two times I have ever actually seen that happen).

Joel Farnham said...

Unless Rush backs word for word everything Dirtbag Derby wrote, I don't care to hear what he thinks. Derby opened up a can of worms that should have been opened years ago. Lowry, Moran and a few others are jumping on Derby and are hoping to not be included in the inevitable racist calls. They are so scared they are not dealing with what Derby spilled.

All Derby did was give some advice. It stinks, but too much of it is accurate and applicable. Also, why did Jesse Jackson feel ashamed when he is walking down the road, hears footsteps and then feels relieved when it is a white guy.

AndrewPrice said...

tryanmax, I actually never watched Snatch. I couldn't understand a word for the first couple minutes, so I gave up on it.

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, I have never liked Lowry. He's too mealy about everything.

tryanmax said...

Andrew, it's definitely one of those British films that can be considered foreign, like we were talking about a while back.

AndrewPrice said...

tryanmax, Most of those I'm ok with, but this one seemed to revel in making it impossible to be understood. So I gave up.

tryanmax said...

Andrew, that is actually part of the joke. There are dialect gags throughout that most Americans just wouldn't get. Plus, Pitt's character is meant to be incomprehensible to nearly everyone.

AndrewPrice said...

tryanmax, I get that it's part of the joke, but it was a very stupid idea to do that. And the price they paid is that people like me decided the joke was on them and we wrote the movie off as unwatchable.

Floyd R. Turbo said...

But you have to read Derb in context of his other views. He is a an admitted eugenicist. Given his views on race... the next question then becomes... what is he willing to countenance given what he thinks he knows is true about Blacks?

The better views on race come from Thomas Sowell's "Black Rednecks and White Liberals".

Floyd R. Turbo said...

I should say e eschews the word "eugenics" but favors a more Orwellian terminology and private enterprise birth selection as opposed to government sponsored.

AndrewPrice said...

Floyd, I actually have not kept up with Derby's writing since I dumped NR, but the more I read, the less I think of him -- if that's possible.

I think Joel raises an excellent point to the extent that the right needs to stop being afraid to point out black racism -- which does run rampant in this country. BUT... I do not think what Derby wrote deserves to be defended nor does it sound like Derby does either.

That's my two cents.

Floyd R. Turbo said...

Andrew... to put it back on topic... Derb is The Toy or that horrible "we bad" scene in Stir Crazy. :-)

AndrewPrice said...

Floyd, You know what's funny? When I was a kid, I loved The Toy and I NEVER once saw anything racial about it. Now, I wonder how they made that film without theaters getting burned down?

Backthrow said...

Gosh, I can never do these "What's your favorite _____ movie?" things properly, because there are so many I really like, and it's basically comparing too many apples to too many oranges --the hazards of being an extreme film buff, I guess, lol.

So, instead, I'll list a bunch that I give top marks to (listed in no particular order):

THE PRESIDENT'S ANALYST (1967)
THE QUIET MAN (1952)
UNCLE BUCK (1989)
ANIMAL HOUSE (1978)
USED CARS (1980)
RAISING ARIZONA (1987)
THE MORE THE MERRIER (1943)
MONTY PYTHON & THE HOLY GRAIL (1974)
MIDNIGHT RUN (1988)
A MIGHTY WIND (2003)
DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS (1988)
THE FRESHMAN (1990)
THE BANK DICK (1940)
ARMY OF DARKNESS (1993)
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL SHERIFF (1969)
GROUNDHOG DAY (1993)
AIRPLANE! (1980)
TOP SECRET! (1984)
THE KID BROTHER (1927)
TRADING PLACES (1983)
THE BLUES BROTHERS (1980)
CHAMPAGNE FOR CAESAR (1950)
O BROTHER WHERE ART THOU? (2000)
FERRIS BUELLER'S DAY OFF (1986)
THIS IS SPINAL TAP (1984)
HEAVEN CAN WAIT (1943)
HOT SHOTS! (1991)
MEATBALLS (1979)
SEVEN CHANCES (1925)
THE NAKED GUN (1989)
GHOSTBUSTERS (1984)
HOME ALONE (1990)
SULLIVAN'S TRAVELS (1941)
A FISH CALLED WANDA (1988)
PLANES, TRAINS & AUTOMOBILES (1987)
THE INCREDIBLES (2004)
THE KENTUCKY FRIED MOVIE (1977)
THE LADYKILLERS (1955)

Floyd R. Turbo said...

I bet The Toy is still funny. The movie gets a pass precisely because of RIchard Pryor. But even he (to reference Eddie Murphy above) wouldn't have much of a mainstream audience today. He'd be shunned just like Eddie Murphy's Raw couldn't get made today either.

Joel Farnham said...

Andrew,

I am starting to wonder if we ever can have an honest discussion on race. You see, you are not even willing to go through Dirtbag Derby's article.

And the point is, not just "BLACK" racism, but racism in general. What really constitutes racism and what is really commonsense.

Did you know that if your school district emphasizes long distance running and de-emphasizes sprints, it can be considered RACIST by definition. This is because of the differences of the gluteous maximus between the races.

AndrewPrice said...

Floyd, True. I'll bet The Toy is still funny, though I haven't seen it in years. I think the problem isn't that the movie is racist or not funny, it's that we've reached a point where people get bent out of shape over even the mention of race.

And I think that would prevent a movie like The Toy being made today. Heck, I'll bet Trading Places would be met with anger because of the implication that a black man is so malleable that two rich old guys can make or break him. People have lost their sense of humor.

Eddie Murphy's Raw was hilarious! But if I recall correctly, even at the time, feminists were upset by it.

AndrewPrice said...

Backthrow, I watched Midnight Run the other day for the first time in a decade and I was amazed how well that film held up! Excellent movie!

Ah... Kentucky Fried Movie. LOL! I love the guy who gets to pick his own execution method!

Speaking of Heaven Can Wait, I actually like the Warren Beatty version (197?) -- and that's not something I will often say.

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, The problem with the race lobby is that they are obsessed with race. They look for racism in any disparity. The only way to ever fix this will be to de-emphasize race, i.e. to get people to stop noticing it. Pointing out the differences only makes things worse because it perpetuates the idea that we need to see the world through a racial lens.

Joel Farnham said...

Andrew,

I agree with you about the race lobby. I could do with a little less race-baiting.

However, I feel like I am channeling Kirk and you are channeling McCoy.

The modern-day use of racism is an armament that you give up to liberals by allowing them to point out the differences and refusing to participate. [Truth in fact, they don't point out the differences, they just say that poor results are because of racism. It is similar to saying that the reason blacks are over-represented in Basket-ball is because of racism.]

But let's go it your way. De-emphasizing racism is approved. Now, how do you go about it? Are you going to use unicorn farts and pixie dust to make the bad liberals not call us racists? Or are you going to shove down their throats each and everything that IS racist badgering from their side.

Which is it? Wishful thinking? Or something a little more reality-based?

Floyd R. Turbo said...

In addition, we don't want to get so caught up in the faux racism that we can't recognize real racism -- or racialism perhaps.

Again, Derbyshire has a track record. "Straight shooting" is admirable only if the target is legitimate. Black racists (Sharpton et al.) are legit. Black people in general are not. Telling the truth is not a virtue in and of itself if the truth of one's views is repugnant.

The clear line of Derb's thinking is biological origins. I think it's cultural.

Joel Farnham said...

Floyd,

I agree it is cultural. Also, it is the pink monkey syndrome.

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, Don't underestimate the power of unicorn farts. ;)

I think the problem is that if we spend our time pointing fingers and saying "this is the problem with ___," then you don't end up moving away from race, you just end up re-enforcing the idea that race matters and that whites hate blacks. I think it would be better to ignore race, to strip any mention of race out of the law, to forbid the government from keeping race-based statistics, etc.

I also think that as the same time, you pick a couple big picture topics where blacks have failed themselves (like education) and you start to attack this foundation their leaders have build which says that somehow racism is to blame for disparity.

But when you start going after people in groups rather than as individuals, you end up playing right into the hand of liberals who seek to keep people divided into groups.

Pink monkey syndrome? I thought it was purple dinosaurs?

AndrewPrice said...

Floyd, I agree. I have seen nothing in human experience which tells me there are biological limits on different races, BUT there are huge cultural impediments.

And it does not do any good to support people who are marching down the wrong path, especially when that path is inflammatory and will prevent a fair examination of other issues.

Joel Farnham said...

I brought those up because one is about race [Basketball], and the other is cultural [education], yet we act like it is the other way around. Race does matter when you start going through things that physically blacks can do and physically whites can do. Race doesn't matter when you are talking about education. Culture plays a far more bigger role.

Here is one thing that people aren't pointing out to blacks. It is their "Black Culture" that is killing them. It their fear of being perceived as sellouts should they read a book that isn't approved by Black Leaders. Black History month is far more damaging to Blacks than is currently perceived. Caricatures of the angry black man in film do far more damage than KKK ever hoped to accomplish. Yeah, go ahead, you too can be a "black bad@ss".....until a bullet catches up to you.

When someone talks about the "hoody" and gold teeth being part of their culture... I wonder if he or she ever grew up.

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, I don't believe that race matters physically. I think what you are seeing is a numbers bias as blacks gravitate toward certain athletics and whites toward others.

I think all these differences are cultural. And what you are seeing now, by the way, is that poor-whites are adopting the same culture as poor blacks and they are suffering the same consequences.

Joel Farnham said...

Andrew,

You need to go talk to a coach first. That is where I got it from. A black coach by the way.

Second, there are PHYSICAL differences. One of them is how the buttocks of blacks are generally different than the buttocks of whites. This gives most blacks a NATURAL advantage in jumping and speed for short distances. DON'T trust me. Check it out with a coach.

George Carlin is the only comedian to note this difference.

tryanmax said...

Joel, I'm about to tell you more about my buttocks than anybody asked for, but I know first hand it ain't necessarily a black thing.

Joel Farnham said...

Have you talked to a coach yet?

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, I called the coach hotline last night and I asked, but they refused to talk about butts. ;)

In all seriousness, humans come in all shapes and sizes -- there are literally millions of combinations. There is no "black" shape and no "white shape."

tryanmax said...

Joel, I have not, but if you know a good tailor, I'd like to talk with him.

AndrewPrice said...

tryanmax, I know a guy, but he only does people with three-cheeks... he's a bit of a specialist.

Floyd R. Turbo said...

There have been studies noticing the differences in musculature of West Africans and East Africans (WA countries excel in sprints and East -- Kenyans, Ethiopians, etc. in long distance runners)

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2008/08/jamaican_me_speedy.html

And to put this back on topic... Cool Runings was hilarious. :-)

Floyd R. Turbo said...

That would be Running of course... runings was a Viking flick

AndrewPrice said...

Floyd, "Cool Runings" -- a Viking flick! LOL! Brilliant!

I enjoyed Cool Running very much. :)

There are definitely genetic differences in people, but again there is no monolithic "white" or "black," each group has significant variation depending on ancestry. Plus, even among people with similar genes, there are still significant variants. And culture is still the biggest factor for all behaviors.

Joel Farnham said...

I am fond of little known movies like "Her Alibi" and "Overboard." Fun fluff.

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, I like a lot of those -- things like Short Circuit and other 1980s films which aren't really remembered as huge hits, but which are still really fun films.

Backthrow said...

Andrew, one thing I noticed when looking at my own list and other titles mentioned in various posts above, especially the 1980s comedies (and you're right, that was a sort of golden age for movie comedy, in retrospect), is something that ties in with your recent piece on the death of the true hero in modern movies.

Most of the hit comedies of the past 15-20 years have left me cold; a big reason why is the protagonist is usually a complete idiot, and most of the comedy derives from this person making a complete ass of himself, usually in public. Usually, he's trying to get the hot girl by ill-conceived trickery, but ends up 'learning his lesson' by being 'true to himself', somehow winning her in the end. Or, it's about a guy (or group of friends), who are irresponsible idiots, who screw something up major, and have to patch it all over before (the Law, the boss, the wife/girlfriend) finds out, and they somehow win in the end. Or, it's about the doormat/nerd who'se put in an awkward situation, and his ineffectual idiocy makes things worse, but somehow he wins in the end.

Now, compare this to pretty much any late-1970s or 1980s character comedy listed here. Whether it's a main character played by Bill Murray, Eddie Murphy, John Candy, etc (or a group, like the Delta House gang, the Ghostbusters, the Camp North Star CITs), these characters are not idiots. They may be odd, they may have unorthodox methods of getting the job done, but they are usually fairly bright (and underestimated), and they are usually underdogs pitted against an arrogant and/or stupid antagonist or institution. It may be as simple as 'the slobs vs. the snobs', but the 'slobs' in these win us over almost immediately, and they 'earn' their success at the end of the story.

Like the non-heroes in your recent piece, today's comedy characters win at the end because things just break their way. They win because the script says so. Also, they'll commit an embarrassing faux pax in public, and we're supposed to laugh *at* them, whereas their counterparts in the earlier films were usually setting up the prank so we'd laugh *with* them, and *at* Dean Wormer or Ted Knight or William Atherton, instead. The klutzy nerd, like Rick Moranis in GHOSTBUSTERS, worked fine as a supporting character, but now they make that type the comedy lead.

Exceptions would be Lt. Frank Drebin in THE NAKED GUN. He is a true idiot, but he's the center of a parody of a straight police melodrama, with wall-to-wall sight gags. Or THIS IS SPINAL TAP (or the other Christopher Guest 'mockumentaries'), which is satire featuring true idiots, but they are trying to look good and appear to be smarter than they are for the documentarian's lens, and failing, which is funny. Also, an idiot who thinks he's smarter than his fellow idiots --but clearly isn't-- is funny (see Moe Howard, Oliver Hardy, George Clooney in O BROTHER WHERE ART THOU, etc)... a man-child idiot who revels in being an idiot, while those around him point out what an idiot he is, is painful tedium (see any given Will Ferrell flick).

AndrewPrice said...

Backthrow, That is a very insightful point! I've been thinking back on the comedies of the past 30-40 years and you are correct. In the 1970s and 1980s, the protagonist was someone who was bright and decent ("a good guy") who was unfairly attacked by someone with power. And the comedy came from them striking back and prevailing against superior odds.

But starting in the 1990s and continuing through today, the protagonists are losers who lack worthwhile goals and who aren't struggling against anything unfairly keeping them down, but are instead struggling against their own pathetic-ness.

That might go a LONG way toward explaining why modern comedies are just not funny and why they are so hard to relate to -- because we don't see this issues in ourselves and we don't find them funny when we do?

It also might explain why we can still relate to the characters from the 1980s comedies even after all this time, because their struggles are timeless, i.e. we feel like we fight similar struggles every day.

Thanks for the interesting thought!

rlaWTX said...

No one mentioned "The Princess Bride"!!!!!!!!!

I also love "Steel Magnolias" - I'm not sure if it's comedy or not - I both laugh and cry.

Ghostbusters, Groundhog Day

I just borrowed "What about Bob" to rewatch because I hated it the first time (in college - a group of friends LOVED it and quoted it incessantly)


RE Derbyshire - I enjoyed reading his NRO stuff for his odd take, with the understanding that I would agree with practically none of it. Talk about a pessimistic and depressing worldview! And I have to admit that I understand NR's parting of ways with him. They have a business to run, and they are seen as a "voice" of conservative thought. While I would like to see an honest discussion about the race-centric perspective, I'm not sure that this was a good way to open the conversation. Sound bites never fall in our favor...

AndrewPrice said...

rlaWTX, How could we forget The Princess Bride?!

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Not a comedy but it did have some funny parts and fits in with the race/culture discussion: Gran Torino.

Walt (Eastwood) isn't afraid to mention race but mostly cultural differences among his friends or even (initially) his Korean naighbors.

Now, liberals would call Walt a racist for doing this but Walt isn't a racist. He points out their differences with humor including when he uses what has been labelled derogatory terms (words that are only derogatory if the intent is derogatory or mean spirited).

It was refreshing and funny to hear the good natured banter between Walt and his friends and the Korean neighbors who become friends later on.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Not sure if anyone mentioned it but Major Payne was hilarious!

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

AndrewPrice said...

"Joel, NRO is from that school of surrender-conservatives who cower before liberal attacks (circa-1990s). Of course they were going to surrender. I think they should have canned Derbyshire, but they should have counter-attacked at the same time by pointing out the racism inherent in "the talk" and they should have said they won't accept it from white or black."

Excellent and I concur! Mark Steyn also wrote a good piece about The Talk, Derbyshire, NRO et al.

Derbyshire may have made some good points but the tone of his piece (as well as the stuff he got wrong) distracted from any salient points (he should've just used Andrews superb paragraph above).

Because of that Derbyshire makes it much more difficult for conservatives to counter The Talk and have frank discussions about race (and mostly culture).

In short, he is an idiot and I agree he should've been fired long ago.
Paleoconservatives of his ilk don't help conservatives.

That being said, I've seen others, such as Dr, Sowell, address these issues in an incredibly smart and useful way. And he did it (several times, actually) without a nast tone.

Which is why I read Sowell religiously and ignore people like Derbyshire.

AndrewPrice said...

Ben, I wonder if Eastwood would consider Gran Torino a comedy? LOL!

Major Payne was fun.

AndrewPrice said...

Ben, Sowell is fantastic. He has the ability to hit any issue straight up and make sense of it without ever turning anyone off. And I think you put your finger right on the problem with Derbyshire -- he makes it that much harder for others to talk about these issues because he keeps the meme alive that conservatives are all racists. So no matter how good our points out, they will keep falling on deaf ears so long as we play into that.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Some conservatives I highly respect who don't agree with everything Derbyshire said are defending his article and believe we as conservatives should do so in the vein of a frank discussion of race.

I think they are missing the forest for the trees in this case.

There are others who think that Derbyshire alone has had the courage to talk about this stuff and that's simply not true. Steyn, Sowell and many others have talked about this in cdonstructive ways.

The facts and statistics mean nothing without pointing out why there is a high incidence of black on black crime in urban areas.

Why? Not because of race but because of the culture of destruction leftist policies create.
THAT is where we should concentrate our discussions IMO.

Because blacks do well when they break out of that leftist imposed prison.

Joel Farnham said...

Ben,

"Some conservatives I highly respect who don't agree with everything Derbyshire said are defending his article and believe we as conservatives should do so in the vein of a frank discussion of race."

Then come up with some frank talk about race. For one thing, there are different shades of black. What is that where a black man starts to lose his pigmentation?

While this is probably lame and mostly useless for understanding, it has the virtue of being the least controversial.

AndrewPrice said...

Ben, I agree. The problem with Derbyshire is that (1) he has a history of being on the fringe, so he's instantly not credible, and (2) what he wrote is needlessly inflammatory. Once you start treating blacks as "a people" you play into this idea of racial wars.

Conservatives need to stop saying anything that paints "blacks" as a group. Instead, they need to look at issues through an economic prism by saying things like: "X is a problem for America's poor and is even worse for poor black Americans" rather than saying "this is a problem for blacks."

They also need to master the stats. They need to start repeating the effects of black on black crime, for example. They need to address statistics like shorter-lifespan, worse health, lower income, etc. And they need to link this to generations of liberal governance. AND they need to show how blacks who are not part of that system are different. They also need to propose solutions.

But the biggest thing is to stop treating blacks like they are somehow separate for everyone else. That's what liberals do and we are just playing into that when someone like Derbyshire comes along.

AndrewPrice said...

But Joel, why even talk about that issue (pigmentation)? What does it help except suggest that we're looking for genetic differences.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Joel: The problem is talk about racial differences is a distraction and it's exactly what the left wants us to do.
And as Andrew points out, how does that benefit conservatives or advance the discussion of culture, economy, crime, etc.?

Not only that, most folks, thanks to a mostly leftist public education system and the media, have been conditioned to shut their minds off and immediately think that anyone who mentions racial differences is a racist.
Even doctors have been accused of being racist for mentioning biological differences among races.

It's the same with statistics which many people don't understand anyway. Conservatives need to stop confusing cultural differences and their causes with race.
High crime in urban areas isn't due to race it's due to liberal policies. The highest crime cities are run by democrats. We need to point this out constantly.

If we do that and liberals scream racism (as they always do) it will show that they are the ones who are being hysterical and preoccupied with race.

At least that's how I see it. I haven't seen any good arguments explaining why we should talk about race. It only helps libs.

AndrewPrice said...

Joel and Ben, I view a bit like talking to someone with an addiction problem. It has to be handled carefully, bit by bit. If you jump on those people right away about how their behavior affects other people ("look what you're doing to X, Y Z!"), they tune you out. You have to ease into the conversation and get them to see what they are doing step by step so they admit that they have a problem. That means, picking topics very carefully to hit them with things which their normal defense mechanisms cannot deflect, and not making it personal.

That's how I think we will ultimately have the most success.

Joel Farnham said...

Andrew and Ben,

I grew up in a house hold that made it a habit to question authority. Any one's authority. Asking about a simple thing like pigmentation and a disease that hits a few of them is not as controversial as you think. Also, I KNOW for a fact that most blacks would prefer a person who ISN'T afraid to ask.

You will also find that few liberals are really willing to ask a black something as easy as that.

I have asked that simple question. Also, I have asked some far more controversial questions and I am still here and no race war was started.

Oh, BTW I have been called n-word by a black man who forgot he was talking to a white guy. N-word isn't the epithet that you think it is. Of course a lot o blacks find it extremely hilarious how some fall over themselves in trying not to say it. Like I am NOT saying it, because I don't want to cause FAUX outrage.

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, Questioning authority is the only way to be in my book!

I've had similar conversations to the one you've had. But the thing is there is a difference between 1-1 conversations where you know each other and a public fuss created by an article which then gets spun by the race industry with the intent of causing problems and reinforcing stereotypes.

Conservatives face this second problem in the public sphere. So what I'm talking about is the way we need to proceed when engaging in large public debates. We need to make it not-personal, we need to eliminate the idea that being black should mean being something separate, and we need to stop giving these race hustlers ammo to prop up the meme. We need to put them on the defensive by refusing to play into their hands and instead calling them out on the indefensible statistics. Only then, when the ball starts moving can we take the next step.

This isn't like reaching moderates, this is more like trying to deprogram a cult.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Joel: I get what your saying. Talking to individuals is often different, based on the individual of course.

Perhaps it would help to see it as narratives. Leftists always wanna set their narratives and shout down ours.

Instead of debating within the strictures of leftist narratives which are usually wrong, misinformed or flat out lies, we should use our own narratives that get to the root of the problems we face and what causes those problems.

Many may still ignore us but I think more will be inclined to listen if we show why they are having the problems leftism creates.

And we hafta keep doing that and repeating it. It will drive liberals nuts and they'll do everything they can to divide and distract.

Liberals don't know how to respond to people like Sowell because he doesn't take the bait leftists set out.
He just calmly reports the truth and he does it without inflammatory language.

I'm not saying their isn't a time and place for inflamatory language but we must never use it in the narrow confines of leftist narratives and we muct be judicious and smart if we do go nuclear.
But that's not for everyone and one must be 100% sure before using the nuclear option (considser and reconsider the ramifications).

We make more inroads, I believe if we are passionately dispassionate and calmly point out the truth.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Okay, Andrew said it better so...what Andrew said. :^)

Joel Farnham said...

Guys,

We have a post racial country. Right now. You just aren't seeing it for the Race baiting and their enablers are getting in the way.

I really do wish Romney picks West and then call themselves Ebony and Ivory. Give the idiotic race baiting SOBs something to talk about.

AndrewPrice said...

Joel, Could you imagine how insane the Democrats would get if Romney picked West and then West called them something like Ebony and Ivory or Salt and Pepper 2012?! The Democrats would lose their minds!

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

That would be funny to see, lol!
I think West would cause more liberal conniption fits than Cheney. :^)

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