tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post6949849459917351943..comments2024-03-05T21:05:36.848-05:00Comments on CommentaramaFilms: Bond-arama: No. 005 Thunderball (1965)AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-66113219695846613242014-03-09T21:00:48.379-04:002014-03-09T21:00:48.379-04:00Thanks John! It has been interesting to see them ...Thanks John! It has been interesting to see them all broken down. I agree with you that this <i>should</i> be higher, it just never seems to enter the conversation.<br /><br />Interesting point about the one on one fight. So perhaps a better solution would be some sort of mental challenge, like a puzzle Bond needs to solve to get to Largo, which Largo doesn't think Bond can overcome. That would be better than the ending they've chosen for the film.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-8173923557002221402014-03-09T17:32:22.666-04:002014-03-09T17:32:22.666-04:00Excellent review as usual, Andrew. Now that you ha...Excellent review as usual, Andrew. Now that you have reviewed the entire franchise, It is interesting to see just how well this one compares... which makes me wonder if it does not deserve a higher ranking. The flaws it exhibits (failures to kill Bond, movie logic, and the ending) can all be found in more highly ranked Bond films.<br /><br />In particular, I'm not sure the film would be better with a one-on-one fight ending for the following reasons. The game of cat-and-mouse that Bond and Largo play is more of a cerebral one. Largo (in contrast to Red Grant say) prefers brains over brawn, and indirect involvement in murder over getting his hands dirty. Had he been successful, one could imagine him at a glamorous party remarking to his associates, "Terrible shame about Mr Bond. I should have warned him about those sharks in the swimming pool."<br />Bond's assault on Largo is like a well-executed plan in chess, ruthlessly exploiting a weakness in the opponent until they are defenceless. In this case, the weakness is Domino, and from the very beginning, Bond persistently targets her. In the final duel, she is his weapon of choice, and it is entirely appropriate that she is the one who kills Largo.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18105609617071999765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-16216065581990336152014-01-30T23:29:14.254-05:002014-01-30T23:29:14.254-05:00Rustbelt, That's funny. I agree about the und...Rustbelt, That's funny. I agree about the underwater fight stuff. It's done super well. The whole thing feels real and looks real and feels very, very credible. The fact they achieved this in 1965 and it's only been outdone maybe twice (<i>For Your Eyes Only, The Abyss</i>) is a real testament to their skill.<br /><br />I'm also impressed with how strong this movie is as an action film. It really does hold its own against modern films. It feels tough, strong and fast paced. It doesn't feel dated or outdated, and I suspect it would be just as exciting on the big screen today as anything else they are putting out.<br /><br />This movie is a very strong film with a high re-watchability factor.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-21149385917719964872014-01-30T23:22:53.360-05:002014-01-30T23:22:53.360-05:00Oh, definitely, Andrew. This film is great and has...Oh, definitely, Andrew. This film is great and has high re-watchability value. What impresses me the most is the underwater fight scene. Having seen several documentaries for the underwater scenes in Disney's "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea," I can only imagine how hard it was to choreograph 'Thunderball.' But it was worth the wait. No CGI. No cheats. (No PETA!) Just good guys and bad guys dueling it out in a setting not seen before or since. <br /><br />And since you brought up the equipment, I saw a Modrern Marvels episode on Bond tech on the History Channel (when it was still good) that mentioned Bond's breathing device. Apparently, several contractors and military officials contacted the filmmakers to find out how it worked. Sadly, they had to tell them it was just a movie prop. Connery and his stuntmen were apparently just holding their breath.Rustbelthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12190297078043033514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-78809274069196754522014-01-30T23:16:25.380-05:002014-01-30T23:16:25.380-05:00Yeah. I think it was a mistake. When you build u...Yeah. I think it was a mistake. When you build up two characters as equals who genuinely hate each other on a personal level, anything short of the film ending with a death match between the two is a let down. This movie spent a lot of time making Largo and Bond out as equals, showing both being absolutely cold-blooded and determined, neither being afraid of the other. Then in the ending, Largo becomes a coward and gets killed by an extra. That is deflating.<br /><br />And again, I don't want this to seem like I'm panning the movie. The movie is good and satisfying, but it would have been an order of magnitude better if Bond and Largo had fought, hand to hand, to settle this at the end.<br /><br />You could even send in the Marines, but Bond needs to stop Largo from pushing the button. That would have been better.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-59849698602089237292014-01-30T23:10:00.014-05:002014-01-30T23:10:00.014-05:00In other words, Andrew, if I could also make a wre...In other words, Andrew, if I could also make a wrestling analogy...<br /><br />This Bond movie ending brought to you by WCW and the New World Order. (Who needs a clean finish?)Rustbelthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12190297078043033514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-73072614405082316582014-01-30T23:06:00.706-05:002014-01-30T23:06:00.706-05:00Rustbelt, You make an interesting point.
I see yo...Rustbelt, You make an interesting point.<br /><br />I see your point about Bond feeling behind the audience, but keep in mind that he does already know they did it. What he's doing now in Nassau is trying to find the bombs, and he's even figured that out within about a 10 mile radius. So in a way, he really isn't any further behind than us. BUT, it definitely has that feel. So what is the solution? Perhaps shifting the dialog more to "where are the bombs"? I'm not sure.<br /><br />To me, the real problem is that the very ending wipes out the build-up to the ending. Here you have Bond getting ready to go one on one against Largo in a brutal cage match and then it all kind of ends up a different movie as Bond's manager smacks Largo over the head with a chair in the lockerroom.<br /><br />On Ms. Galore, I've always felt that was the weak link in that film. Letting Bond save the world just because he kissed some possible lesbian in a barn was a stretch. They really should have include something more... but we'll get to that.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-46495609755769208842014-01-30T22:25:15.702-05:002014-01-30T22:25:15.702-05:00Hm...I'm of two minds on this one, Andrew. On ...Hm...I'm of two minds on this one, Andrew. On the one hand, I really like this one. If I'm channel surfing and come across it, it stays on the tube. Like you said, terrific action, great action, and terrific scenery. (You know what I mean!)<br /><br />However, there's something about the second act that bugs me, and I think I found it. It kind of goes into what you said about the cat-and-also-cat game played by Bond and Largo. It's the storytelling technique. After the opening titles- by Tom Jones of the British Invasion, no less!- SPECTRE immediately tells the audience their plans. Then, we see their plan take place. Most screenwriters would have Bond discover SPECTRE's plan along with the audience, and I have a lot of respect for this technique. Sometimes, it feels like Thunderball grinds to a halt as Bond tries to find out what the audience already knows. (Dramatic irony is good, but mainly in small doses- not half the film.) That's why, for me, much of act two- despite the scenery- feels like filler. In fact, when the underwater scenes start, my reaction is often "Finally!"<br />Granted, probably a minor complaint, but one aimed at the director's decisions nonetheless.<br /><br />And did anyone notice how this might be the first self-referential Bond film? After Bond sleeps with Volpe, she makes it clear his charm didn't work. She remains bad. I think the producers were referencing 'Goldfinger' and the fact that Bond taking, um...Miss Galore for a woll in ze hay, thus turning her good so that she helps his comrades-in-arms, is basically all he does to stop Goldfinger's plan. I'm not sure if the producers were trying to make Volpe stronger by being immune to Bond or admitting that the previous film hinged almost solely on Bond's, um...prowess, not his agent skills. Rustbelthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12190297078043033514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-20408363049684064122014-01-30T19:39:58.579-05:002014-01-30T19:39:58.579-05:00Voz, Thanks! He is ruthless in this, even by mode...Voz, Thanks! He is ruthless in this, even by modern standards. Most of his kills in this one are in cold blood and he simply writes them off the moment after they are complete. It makes him a very interesting character here because he'd lost that in the prior two films.<br /><br />This is definitely a favorite of mine.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-46883324260849281922014-01-30T18:48:04.801-05:002014-01-30T18:48:04.801-05:00I just watched this again last week and I think it...I just watched this again last week and I think it might be my second favorite Bond film after Casino Royale...all your insights are spot on...Bond is ruthless in this one...Voznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-27526222781055707192014-01-30T14:41:49.211-05:002014-01-30T14:41:49.211-05:00Koshcat, The ending is weak. This could have been...Koshcat, The ending is weak. This could have been a much stronger film with a more realistic ending.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-61195901489169742952014-01-30T14:41:20.547-05:002014-01-30T14:41:20.547-05:00Jed, LOL! Sadly, Bond girls aren't ultimately...Jed, LOL! Sadly, Bond girls aren't ultimately that important the films. The great ones are great, but you can still do well even with a poor one.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-32914484147638239412014-01-30T14:29:21.322-05:002014-01-30T14:29:21.322-05:00If I remember right, the only problem I had with t...If I remember right, the only problem I had with this movie is the ending. It almost ruins the whole movie.Koshcathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00552108950848576633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-46317680619007724422014-01-30T14:28:49.388-05:002014-01-30T14:28:49.388-05:00What do you mean girls are .5???? L.o.l.What do you mean girls are .5???? L.o.l.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-46199394653628211452014-01-30T13:31:36.943-05:002014-01-30T13:31:36.943-05:00tryanmax, I'm not sure I still have that infor...tryanmax, I'm not sure I still have that information, but I'll check. Once I had them ranked, I didn't need it anymore. If I have it, I'll post it.<br /><br />What I did was I ranked each film compared to the others separately for: (1) plot quality, (2) Bond quality, (3) Bond girl quality, and (4) villain quality. Then I gave them all numbers 23-1. I multiplied the "plot" numbers by 2 and the Bond girls number by 0.5 because of their importance or lack thereof. Then I added up the numbers.<br /><br />And interestingly, they came in clumps -- it was not a smooth line. For example, you would get 5 films that hovered around 100 (say 103-97), and then the next batch wouldn't be until 140 above it or 75 below it. So getting them into groups was really easy. Inside those groups, however, they were often separate by single or even half points.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-87300967790824045042014-01-30T13:23:36.354-05:002014-01-30T13:23:36.354-05:00tryanmax, I agree. This was Connery at his best. ...tryanmax, I agree. This was Connery at his best. He had figured out the role and he was comfortable delivering all the parts he needed to deliver. He was helped too with a strong script that was written to bring out his "Bond parts."AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-73910765861717495012014-01-30T13:22:27.209-05:002014-01-30T13:22:27.209-05:00Jed, This is one those films where you need to acc...Jed, This is one those films where you need to accept the times. Things were different then -- no cell phones, no satellite surveillance, etc. Moreover, the mindset was different. Films just weren't as murderous as today because people weren't yet immune to the violence they saw on film. So this really was a violent film, even if today it doesn't feel that way.<br /><br />Also, as an aside, the public hadn't yet been sold on the silly idea that there are people sitting in darkened rooms who can watch anything happening in real time and move in troops to handle it. What Bond does here is what "intelligence" used to be about.<br /><br />On the quibbles, they are only quibbles. I don't think you would even notice most of them if those issues hadn't become a problem throughout the series, with Bond escaping pretty inexplicable over and over. As for the ending, I think the ending is great... I just think it could have been better. I probably would have had Bond and Largo fighting at Largo's estate and then Bond dumps him into the shark tank.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-2100115689087317362014-01-30T13:17:36.389-05:002014-01-30T13:17:36.389-05:00Scott, As an interesting aside, all those machines...Scott, As an interesting aside, all those machines you see underwater didn't exist before this movie. The crew had to invent them. How cool is that?<br /><br />That said, the underwater stuff is a little slow. I think that <i>For Your Eyes Only</i> handled the underwater stuff better. The real special effects failures here though relate to the yacht moving at light speed toward rocks until someone randomly spins the wheel and the it moves towards the next set of rocks.<br /><br />I agree about the back machine. It never once seems dangerous.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-40063049066765094492014-01-30T11:12:30.594-05:002014-01-30T11:12:30.594-05:00Andrew, Just out of curiosity: In your intro piece...Andrew, Just out of curiosity: In your intro piece you mentioned "adding up the points" to rank the films. Were those literal points? If so, do you plan to release the spreadsheet? I'd be very interested in the raw data behind this series (when it's complete, of course.) tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-47133097265328526372014-01-30T11:07:13.792-05:002014-01-30T11:07:13.792-05:00I personally think this was Connery's best out...I personally think this was Connery's best outing as Bond, right at the apex where he's comfortable in the role but hasn't yet tired of it. More as it comes to me...tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-63994835432920768372014-01-30T10:32:04.087-05:002014-01-30T10:32:04.087-05:00At the risk of sounding like an old geezer, you ha...At the risk of sounding like an old geezer, you have pretty much nailed this one as being one hell of a Bond film. Why? Yes it's a hell of a story. It may be harder for younger folks to understand, but in the 60's, this is how one would go about global terror and ransom. We didn't have suitcase nukes then. Bond is great, the girls are great. My only quibbles are with your quibbles. BUT, you admit them as such, so you are forgiven. What are you talking about, Jed? Mainly, the why don't they shoot Bond. Letting the meglomaniacal super villain feed him to the sharks. You can get away with in Thunderball, but later, having Moore run across the gators seems like we have been there and done that. My only other quibbles. My original mental image was of my 9th grade music teacher for Largo, so once on has that .... Second, somehow, the underwater scenes look a little dated to me today. Oh, and third? In the book, they did a little better job on selling the fact that Bond and Leiter were virtually sitting this one out since SPECTRE had plenty of bigger targets. In the books, events moved so fast, it was impossible to bring in the cavalry. And, truth be told, that was a slightly easier sell in the 60's than today. Good review and good call on the positioningTennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-29895965625931345092014-01-30T09:03:29.881-05:002014-01-30T09:03:29.881-05:00This is one Bond film I need to see again. I think...This is one Bond film I need to see again. I think my issue with it is the same for any underwater movie - when you're underwater, things tend to go much more SLOOOOWLY.<br /><br />But it's definitely entertaining. And I'm sure you know the original theme song was "Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang." Someone put the song to the existing title sequence and you can watch it <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxT6mufIyM" rel="nofollow">here</a>. It's a good song and you can actually hear parts of it in John Barry's score.<br /><br />The one thing in this movie I hate is the scene at the spa on the traction machine - it just doesn't look good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com