tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post5617749076175768196..comments2024-03-05T21:05:36.848-05:00Comments on CommentaramaFilms: Defending Temple of DoomAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-65120145339193372932013-02-18T19:41:46.766-05:002013-02-18T19:41:46.766-05:00Anon -
Hey!
I don't think they were working...Anon - <br /><br />Hey!<br /><br />I don't think they were working continuously on the fourth film during all that time but it always seemed that Spielberg, Lucas, and Ford would only make the movie if all the right moons aligned.<br /><br />From what I recall, Frank Darabont wrote a script that Spielberg and Ford loved but Lucas disliked and, with these movies in particular, Spielberg deferred to Lucas on such things... though I think that was a mistake in this case.<br /><br />Lucas was the one who insisted the film be about crystal skulls and aliens - I mean, "interdimensional beings." And if I were Spielberg, I would've said, "Uh, no."<br /><br />I've read various ideas over the years and the ones that kept popping up seemed to involve either Excalibur or the lost city of Atlantis - both more interesting than crystal skulls IMHO.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-51039833340934208652013-02-18T19:17:58.965-05:002013-02-18T19:17:58.965-05:00I (the same guy as from the long post before) agre...I (the same guy as from the long post before) agree though, I saw it once in cinema and once on Blu-ray now and I'm just nothing but disappointed.<br />I mean, I'm not even a huge fan, because my experience with the older movies is only having seen them on TV in the '90s a couple of times.<br />But I did remember them when revisiting them all on BD again, so that means something.<br />So I'm disappointed because they didn't make a worthy 4th after so many years, and that after all the knowledge and experience Steven Spielberg has gained over the decades, especially after CGing E.T., which he even apologized for, but yet there is Indy 4...<br /><br />One of the conclusions I also came to is that they made this movie 10 years too late. I do not get why they didn't make one in like 1998 instead of 2008, because even though Spielberg explained that he "didn't shoot the riding into the sunset scene at the end of Last Crusade for nothing" it's all too obvious that they all had an itch to make another, and they completely missed the boat on it.<br />They just kept putting it off pretending like it wouldn't be a good thing to do and then they made the mistake of doing it in the 21st after all, because they feared they would have missed an opportunity if they didn't.<br />To me it's only painful to think about, cause you can't turn back time and you can barely make anyone younger apart from some make-up and computer effects.<br /><br />I do still welcome a 5th in the hope that it will be the "Raiders" to the "Doom", as in "Raiders" in actuality being a follow-up to "Doom" chronologically. So hopefully they would make a sequel that just excels which could help us just ignore the 4th even more, like some people ignore "Doom" as well.<br /><br />I must say, in the last week I've had great ideas on how to make the fourth a great movie, using what is already in the movie and just changing minor things, which would also fix many of the complaints I've read from people.<br />I mean, if I can do that, why the heck can't the actual film-makers do it right? I guess it's just Lucas' writing to blame and Spielberg agreeing too much to his best friend, I don't know...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-12702635355175738562013-02-03T11:17:44.510-05:002013-02-03T11:17:44.510-05:00Hmm...
...when I say he doesn't just pop up o...Hmm...<br /><br />...when I say he doesn't just pop up out of nowhere, I'm contrasting that with, say, Jar-Jar Binks who literally just happens to be in the right place at the right time and sticks around for some reason. At least Short Round gets a short explanation.<br /><br />I DO agree that, plot-wise, this film can't hold a candle to <i>Raiders</i>, whose screenplay should be taught in film school classes. It does everything correctly and is structured perfectly. <i>Doom</i> is not.<br /><br />I will continue to complain about the fourth film. Among other things, the plot is too confusing and there's too much backstory that happens off-camera. Indy's OSS adventures sound more interesting than anything that happens in the actual movie!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-24768540179951202592013-02-03T01:01:54.292-05:002013-02-03T01:01:54.292-05:00You're wrong about saying that "Shorty do...You're wrong about saying that "Shorty doesn't pop up out of nowhere", he actually literally does just that. He freaking drives into the movie and is just there.<br />Sure, Indy explains where he got him from, but is that short explanation any less of a "plot device"? Why should that suddenly be acceptable for Shorty's presence? I'd much rather have had Wu Han not being killed off instantly and be a helpful sidekick who watches Indy's back like he was trying to do in his only scene. Then he could also have made a return in the third movie, kind of like what "Felix" is to Bond.<br />In fact, that's so creepy, I just looked it up and hthe same actor actually played an agent who assisted Bond in 'A View To A Kill'.<br />I have nothing against the boy, really, but I also don't see the point of him except being cute and attractive for the kids.<br /><br />Overall I think the story and characters in this movie are pretty bad. I just seems like non-stop spectacle without an actual proper story. It doesn't have to be super-intelligent and that everything must be explained, but there's just nothing explained at all. Stuff just happens and they kind of fight until one side wins.<br />I mean, what happened to Jones being an archaeologist? Sure, he knows about this stone that he's told about in this village which he happened to stumble upon, so he decides to retrieve it.<br />In "Raiders" he got the message that people were after the Ark, so he had to beat them to it. But to do that he had to get a part of that staff, which led him to Marion, which gave a good reason to introduce that character. Then they had to use that staff to find where exactly the Ark was, after even getting to that location, and then also actually retrieve the thing if they could.<br />THAT's at least a bit of an intelligent or constructive plot. Not just "Indy falls out of a plane, happens to end up in a village that misses a sacred stone, which he then goes to find in a palace with an underground temple in which they do cheesy things". How dare people complain about the fourth movie when the second was mediocre??... If the second movie was released today, Lucas would've been damned to the pits of Hell by Indy-fans, perhaps even Spielberg would've been hated for it.<br />And don't give me that "That was back then, not now.". It's still the same movie, it's frozen in time. The technical aspects might age, but the story is the same.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-22444751976319470872011-12-05T10:12:41.067-05:002011-12-05T10:12:41.067-05:00I enjoyed CRUSADE. Particularly for the father-son...I enjoyed CRUSADE. Particularly for the father-son scenes.<br />"You call this archeology?"<br /><br />John Williams (again) gave some great music, especially the Grail theme.<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXh_tZCkVVo<br />It hits its pitch at :43.<br /><br />The three trials scene is pretty good.<br />"Only in a leap from the Lion's Head will he prove his worth."<br /><br />Not as good as RAIDERS, but better than TEMPLE OF DOOM and far superior to CRYSTAL SKULL.<br /><br />TEMPLE OF DOOM, is, I think, about Indiana Jones becoming the hero. He starts at wanting "fortune and glory" and in the end gives the Shankara Stones back to the villagers.Kitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-85919469369401482202011-12-04T21:32:24.964-05:002011-12-04T21:32:24.964-05:00Kit -
Yeah, I knew I'd have a hard time conv...Kit - <br /><br />Yeah, I knew I'd have a hard time convincing people when it came to her character. :-)<br /><br />Totally agree about the look of the film and Williams' music. I think the best thing associated with the release of <i>Crystal Skull</i> was the boxset with expanded score albums from the first three films (though there's still some stuff missing).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-54491434380522271172011-12-04T14:02:05.798-05:002011-12-04T14:02:05.798-05:00Capshaw's character just gets on my nerves.
T...Capshaw's character just gets on my nerves.<br /><br />Though the movie itself is gorgeous. Especially the shot of Indy's silhouette in the caves.<br /><br />And the music is among John Williams' best.<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q98-Fbg1p48Kitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-2305301238946045192011-12-03T16:38:12.833-05:002011-12-03T16:38:12.833-05:00Gee Scott and I didn't get you anything?! ;)
...Gee Scott and I didn't get you anything?! ;)<br /><br />Thanks for the link. Interesting article. I look forward to reading the transcript... probably with absolute horror. But who knows? We'll see.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-37031290434204717572011-12-03T16:34:00.562-05:002011-12-03T16:34:00.562-05:00Andrew -
Consider this link my Christmas gift to...Andrew - <br /><br />Consider this <a href="http://mysterymanonfilm.blogspot.com/2009/03/raiders-story-conference.html" rel="nofollow">link</a> my Christmas gift to you. The link in the first paragraph still works and should make for some interesting reading. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-80745877960890230032011-12-03T16:25:23.526-05:002011-12-03T16:25:23.526-05:00Scott, Sorry about that, they've been advertis...Scott, Sorry about that, they've been advertising it all week so I figured everyone knew -- or I would have mentioned it before.<br /><br />I think the problem with the mobsters is that it goes against his character -- he's a guy who would face any challenge to save an artifact, but now he's trading a truly spectacular artifact for a diamond? It's one of those things that is "unnecessary damage" because they could have just swapped the two items around and the scene would have made more sense.<br /><br />It's interesting that Lucas saw him as a James Bond style playboy, because that is NOT at all what he is. I guess we have Spielberg to thank for keeping Lucas under control....<br /><br />"Steve I have this great idea. He should call himself 'Jones, Indiana Jones.' And he need a partner. I'm thinking a talking donkey called 'Jar-Jar Binks'."<br /><br />"No."AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-47231930617579983092011-12-03T16:16:46.564-05:002011-12-03T16:16:46.564-05:00Andrew and Mycroft -
Interesting thoughts re: Jo...Andrew and Mycroft - <br /><br />Interesting thoughts re: Jones dealing with mobsters. This was probably Lucas' doing - one of his original ideas for the character was that he had a third facet to his personality: he was a professor, an archeologist, but also a James Bond-style playboy, so this might've been a remnant of that.<br /><br />I didn't know there was a marathon on SyFy - I've got <i>Temple of Doom</i> on as we speak. :-)<br /><br />Rumor has it there will be a Blu-Ray set released in 2012 (I hope it only includes the first three).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-31479485457579124412011-12-03T13:51:45.625-05:002011-12-03T13:51:45.625-05:00Sci-Fi Channel is doing an Indiana Jones marathon ...Sci-Fi Channel is doing an <i>Indiana Jones</i> marathon today and I have to say that every time I see <i>Raiders</i>, I just marvel at how fantastic this film is. Everything from the perfect dialog to the great scene structures to the creative cuts and transitions, to the wonderful way they introduce the new locations and the character, etc. It really is an amazing movie.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-83039913488160710722011-12-03T11:26:36.443-05:002011-12-03T11:26:36.443-05:00Mycroft, Excellent point about the change in the c...Mycroft, Excellent point about the change in the character's nature. In <i>Raiders</i> he spent the whole movie fighting to win back artifacts to be put in the museum, but he was also very human. He clearly messed up with Marion, causing the split with her father, Beloch tricked him, he had an aversion to snakes, and he wasn't even the best brawler on screen in most fights, etc. But in the second one, none of those traits were there. He was much more flawless as a character, but at the same time had less inner motivation, i.e. he wasn't out there starting his own crusades, he was doing other people's. And the thing with the diamond was odd in the sense that it didn't seem to fit with his prior methods.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-17837887874999306562011-12-03T00:56:49.346-05:002011-12-03T00:56:49.346-05:00First off, I am old enough that all saw all 3 film...First off, I am old enough that all saw all 3 films in the theater when they first came out.<br />One correction:<br />Harrison Ford wasn't a hot property before Raiders came out. He'd been in American Graffiti, Star Wars and Empire, but was not personally a Big Star. Raiders was The Movie that made his reputation and rightly so.<br />The night I saw Temple of Doom, I loved it. It was a great roller coaster ride, but my enthusiasm had worn off by the very next day. Yes, it was a prequel, but Indy had changed from a man of integrity that practically worshiped historical treasures to a man that trades an artifact to mobsters for a diamond. Add in the stupid raft-as-parachute scene and the gross-out scenes and you've effectively destroyed the emotional connection with Raiders.<br />As for Crusades, yes, you have Ford and Connery. But even before Ford appears on screen, you have River Phoenix as an excellent young Indy, complete with the integrity and love for history that was so missed in Temple.<br />I've only seen a about 10 minutes of Crystal Skull on television and regret seeing that much.<br />My $0.02Mycrofthttp://mycrofth4.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-36071893120053202342011-12-01T17:36:08.970-05:002011-12-01T17:36:08.970-05:00Scott, I can't think of the last film I saw in...Scott, I can't think of the last film I saw in theaters. Either it's been a long time or it just wasn't memorable.<br /><br />I saw <i>Ghostbusters</i> with a couple friends and oddly, the mother of one of my friends. And when Murray says "yes, this man has no dick," everybody burst out laughing except my friend, who was panicked that his mother was going to storm out (he lived a sheltered life).... but she didn't. She laughed like all the rest of us.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-85649780959876021762011-12-01T17:04:58.392-05:002011-12-01T17:04:58.392-05:00The earliest film I recall seeing was Honey, I Shr...The earliest film I recall seeing was <i>Honey, I Shrunk the Kids</i>. I must've been five or so and it might've been the first non-animated film I saw in a theater. I think my mother might've taken me to see <i>The Land Before Time</i> the year before.<br /><br />I also remember seeing <i>Ghostbusters II</i> in theaters in the summer of '89. The evil Vigo painting scared the shit out of me for years afterwards!<br /><br />And yeah, I wait for video now, too. I'll probably see the fourth <i>Mission: Impossible</i> film in theaters, bringing my theater-going count this year up to... three. Tied with last year! :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-79504591839474344502011-12-01T15:20:40.623-05:002011-12-01T15:20:40.623-05:00Scott, The earliest films I recall seeing in theat...Scott, The earliest films I recall seeing in theaters were <i>Star Wars</i>, a couple Disney films (live action and cartoon), <i>Saturday Night Fever</i> and <i>Sgt. Pepper's</i>.<br /><br />My friends and I grew up around the time of, and saw in theaters, <i>Raiders</i>, <i>Empire</i>, <i>For Your Eyes Only</i>, and others of the period. The last time I went to theaters regularly was in the late 1990s (<i>Jackie Brown</i>, <i>Dusk til Dawn</i>, <i>Usual Suspects</i>, <i>LA Confidential</i>, etc.). At this point, I wait for video because movies are too expensive and there are too many jerks... plus, little catches my eye anymore.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-51765343837713206762011-12-01T14:35:24.177-05:002011-12-01T14:35:24.177-05:00ID4 was a good movie. Funny how you can draw contr...ID4 was a good movie. Funny how you can draw contrasts to socialism and the locust creatures in the movie.Game Master Rob Adamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08198920658123610173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-43346044778666861302011-12-01T14:10:53.890-05:002011-12-01T14:10:53.890-05:00Since we're taking a trip down memory lane, I ...Since we're taking a trip down memory lane, I grew up with two theaters in town, right across the street from each other: a General Cinemas theater, which was the nicer one, and the other theater which was owned by a variety of companies over the years (Wometco, Muvico, etc.).<br /><br />I remember the summer of 1996 which was the first summer I spent going to movies with friends and no parents and <i>Independence Day</i> was the BIG event. I remember seeing the teaser with the destruction of the White House, the HBO special, and there was even a Fox primetime special hosted by Jeff Goldblum.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-69540229935139085322011-12-01T11:47:03.539-05:002011-12-01T11:47:03.539-05:00Scott, "exotic coolness" describes my ve...Scott, "exotic coolness" describes my very existence! ;)<br /><br /><br />tryanmax, I hated what they did to Marcus. So put me in that camp. Interestingly, <i>Jurassic Park</i> was probably the last film I looked forward to as well.<br /><br /><br />TJ, I didn't like the melting heads either. I agree it was horrific, but I would rather it had not been in the film.<br /><br />We had 4 theaters in town at that point -- two stand alone theaters and 1-2 in the malls. So "choice" was never a problem. But screen size was and when something HUGE came along, you couldn't get into the cool theater with the big screen. The malls had much smaller screens and they kept getting smaller until the theaters went out of business.<br /><br />These days, everyone has stadium seating so that's not really a problem anymore.<br /><br /><br />ACG -- their interaction is what made <i>Crusaders</i> good, otherwise I would probably rank <i>Doom</i> higher.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-15750246695273359362011-12-01T11:12:06.922-05:002011-12-01T11:12:06.922-05:00"But the reason why Last Crusade is well rece..."But the reason why Last Crusade is well received is because of the interplay between Ford and Connery. "<br /><br />You hit the nail on the head.Game Master Rob Adamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08198920658123610173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-38442590862677089962011-12-01T10:12:59.059-05:002011-12-01T10:12:59.059-05:00Wow - Scott, T-Rav and Tyranmax - you guys make m...Wow - Scott, T-Rav and Tyranmax - you guys make me feel old. I actually saw Raiders in the theater when it first came out (as well as Temple of Doom). I liked Raiders, but I didn't care for the melting faces at the end (I have mentioned that before). When Temple of Doom came out, I liked it better because of the comic relief. Yes, the heart and the monkey brains bothered me, but not as much as the melting faces. I don't think I saw Crusade in the theater - I can't really remember. I do remember liking it the best of the three though.<br /><br />Andrew, your recollection about films being events is certainly true. I remember really looking forward to seeing movies back in those days - today, not so much. The only problem for me back then was that we had one theater where I lived and when a big movie came out it played all summer. If it was something I liked, I didn't mind going back for repeated viewings. If it was something that really freaked me out (like Jaws), I was stuck waiting for something else to come out to go back to the theater.TJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-49810880973182020372011-12-01T08:29:19.195-05:002011-12-01T08:29:19.195-05:00That is definitely one of those things where viewi...That is definitely one of those things where viewing order (as opposed to release order) skews perception. My first introduction to Marcus was as comic relief. In fact, my first introduction to Indiana Jones movies was with a more light, comical tone. I think I am less phased by those changes that I would be if I were introduced to the more serious tone first.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-80099270068163408192011-12-01T07:46:13.199-05:002011-12-01T07:46:13.199-05:00tryanmax -
I don't think Last Crusade is bet...tryanmax - <br /><br />I don't think <i>Last Crusade</i> is better but because it seemed to air every day on HBO when I was in high school, I've probably seen it more than every other Indy movie. It's just a lot of fun!<br /><br />I love John Williams' score and the scenes with Ford and Connery together but, as I mentioned above, the thing I don't like about the film is how they turned the Marcus Brody character the bumbling comic relief.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-41538706434467115042011-12-01T02:26:37.514-05:002011-12-01T02:26:37.514-05:00This is why it is so hard for me to get anything d...This is why it is so hard for me to get anything done. I do other stuff for one evening, and you guys have a 40+ commentarama (see what I did there?) without me! <br /><br />What can I say? I’m apathetic about <i>Temple of Doom</i>. If I had to name a favorite, it’s <i>Last Crusade</i> with <i>Raiders</i> in the #2 slot. <i>Crystal Skull</i> doesn’t even deserve to be ranked. <br /><br />Scott, I agree that the Nazis in <i>Crusade</i> aren’t as good as the <i>Raider</i> Nazis. But the reason why <i>Last Crusade</i> is well received is because of the interplay between Ford and Connery. The suggestion that they both had their turn with Elsa (Alison Doody) is cringingly hilarious. Is it the better movie? I dunno. All I know is I got to see <i>Last Crusade</i> at the drive-in when I was 9, but I was still in diapers when <i>Raiders</i> came out.<br /><br />T-Rav, thank you for saying that <i>The Goonies</i> sucks. I thought I was the only child-of-the-80s who thought so. I am no longer alone. Speaking as one who saw it at <i>every</i> birthday party he attended circa 1986-89, it does suck. Final verdict.<br /><br />As to the era of movie magic, when do you think that ended? I’d venture that <i>Jurassic Park</i> was last movie I really anticipated.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.com