tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post4151884373547902454..comments2024-03-05T21:05:36.848-05:00Comments on CommentaramaFilms: Politics of Trek: “The Enemy Within”AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-48766174777203070582012-07-12T14:31:53.947-04:002012-07-12T14:31:53.947-04:00Koshcat, It's never too late. :)
That's a...Koshcat, It's never too late. :)<br /><br />That's an interesting point about not labeling them good and evil. I think the reason we do that is because the "evil" side includes all the traits which can be used for evil -- violence, aggression, selfishness, lust. Whereas the "good" side includes the traits we need to relate to each other in a positive way -- loyalty, selflessness/altruism, kindness.<br /><br />But in any event, it's clear we need them both.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-85035036259448655952012-07-12T12:16:33.587-04:002012-07-12T12:16:33.587-04:00Too bad I missed (or was late) to a great discussi...Too bad I missed (or was late) to a great discussion. I had just watched this episode about a week ago and was thinking it would be a great topic. I only wish we could call the two sides different names than good and evil. The "evil" was aggressive and selfish but the "good" was too passive and indecisive. Neither was an effective leader or even an effective human being. Like the yin and the yang, you need both sides in perfect balance to achieve the best possible person.Koshcatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-72016671263209776002012-07-11T12:11:35.915-04:002012-07-11T12:11:35.915-04:00PikeBishop, Don't worry about it. I'm mak...PikeBishop, Don't worry about it. I'm making millions of typos myself these days. It's sadly part of the territory of being online so much.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-24717192801408070122012-07-11T11:10:07.245-04:002012-07-11T11:10:07.245-04:00My apologies for the numerous typos and spelling e...My apologies for the numerous typos and spelling errors in my posts. My keys are sticking and I am not proof-reading enough.PikeBishophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05761380937971970762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-43235417599655139022012-07-11T01:42:51.862-04:002012-07-11T01:42:51.862-04:00BTW, Scott probably already posted this before but...BTW, Scott probably already posted this before but just in case: <br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-eMilnSzvY&feature=relmfu" rel="nofollow">Shatner and Nimoy at Dragoncon 2009</a><br />It's very funny!<br /><br />The only downer part was a few minutes near the end of part 6, IIRC, where Nimoy Bemoans the inflammatory language coming from conservative talk radio.<br /><br />Not that it's never inflamatory, but apparently Nimoy has never watched MSNBC, or listened to Err America, Media Matter, Debbie Wafflewhatever of the DNC, Bill Maher, or several other leftist sources or politicians.<br /><br />He mentioned it after Shatner said he had interviewed Rush and Larry Flynt on the same day for his Raw Nerve show.<br /><br />Speaking of inflammatory, Nimoy had nothing to say about Flynt. <br />I can't think of a conservative talk show host that even comes close to that scumbag, or anyone else I listed.<br /><br />Other than that the entire series is hilarious!USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-87497625950798059282012-07-11T01:32:30.129-04:002012-07-11T01:32:30.129-04:00Ben, I was particularly impressed with his good Ki...Ben, I was particularly impressed with his good Kirk, because he manages to play the guy as very nice and kind, but still give you the creeps.<br /><br />I need to think about Mirror Mirror, I'm not sure what the political message is there (haven't really examined it yet).AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-17160523466336775692012-07-11T01:27:07.360-04:002012-07-11T01:27:07.360-04:00It would be like the Mirror Mirror loonyverse, And...It would be like the Mirror Mirror loonyverse, Andrew, with maybe a few decent Spocks and Spockettes in the mix.<br /><br />I was also impressed with Shatner's performance.<br />He sure seemed to relish playing the evil Kirk, LOL.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-16480457050651281552012-07-10T23:44:34.880-04:002012-07-10T23:44:34.880-04:00Ben, LOL! "millions of evil Kirks or Kirkette...Ben, LOL! "millions of evil Kirks or Kirkettes"!<br /><br />I agree with you on all points. Not all individuals fit the mold, and there are certainly people who accept a little bit of both.<br /><br />And I definitely agree that those who give in to their darksides end up getting progressively worse over time. It's like all addictions.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-3349942347794080312012-07-10T23:34:47.622-04:002012-07-10T23:34:47.622-04:00Andrew, aye. I'm speaking about the leftist ph...Andrew, aye. I'm speaking about the leftist philosophy itself, not all individuals that are leftist or lean that way. <br /><br />There are various degrees as well to include proregressive republicans or some libertarians.<br /><br />Essentially, those who believe in these immoral philosophies give in to their dark side to various extents (or are simple ignorant and shortsighted).<br /><br />A communist regime is made up of millions of evil Kirks or Kirkettes.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-63098002011934243512012-07-10T23:19:39.114-04:002012-07-10T23:19:39.114-04:00Mycroft, I think that's true about Christians....Mycroft, I think that's true about Christians. I do think we can make some "changes" in ourselves, but they are really just controlling our impulses. We can't eliminate the impulses.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-63973568292817384942012-07-10T23:18:27.296-04:002012-07-10T23:18:27.296-04:00Ben, For me, that goes without saying. These are ...Ben, For me, that goes without saying. These are generalize opinions, not things which you will absolutely find 100% on each side. I'm not sure there's any trait which we could say is 100% on either side. So don't read this to mean "all liberals will be like this" or "all conservatives will be like this." Instead, see this more generally.<br /><br /><br />I think liberalism is highly immoral. It's premised on one group of people deciding what another group should be allowed to own and then taking the rest so they can spend it as they see fit. That's incredibly immoral, especially when you realize that money and property are nothing more than a way to store the value of a person's labor. That makes this slavery.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-35009012024934302072012-07-10T23:04:22.126-04:002012-07-10T23:04:22.126-04:00I agree with Mountain Man about Christians believi...I agree with Mountain Man about Christians believing that only God can change a man.<br />The symbolic death and resurrection of baptism. Being born again in Christ.<br />The Apostle Paul describes salvation as a circumcision of the heart.Mycrofthttp://mycrofth4.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-66340203709224555822012-07-10T23:02:25.122-04:002012-07-10T23:02:25.122-04:00Now, I'm not saying some conservatives don'...Now, I'm not saying some conservatives don't choose to envy, steal and force people to do what they want , but this is in direct opposition to conservatism/classical liberalism.<br /><br />Conservatism, classic liberalism, by it's very nature discourages this and supports laws severely punishing this (except for envy and greed, because these are behaviors, not actions).<br /><br />Liberty is the cornerstone of conservatism. <br /><br />This may be inflammatory to leftists but leftism also requires immorality. Because it's immoral to envy, steal (liberty and property) and force everyone to do what a few elites decide they must do for the helath of the hive.<br /><br />Sure, there are many "good" intentioned folks who think leftism is a great idea, and who never think it through.<br />They still gotta be immoral (in a big way) to help make it work.<br /><br />Thing is, most leftists don't consisder envy of the "rich" (and only those they don't like) a bad thing, assuming they even admit they are envious.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-9145126902744838022012-07-10T22:59:48.714-04:002012-07-10T22:59:48.714-04:00Mycroft, Excellent point! These negative feelings...Mycroft, Excellent point! These negative feelings people seem to want to wish away really are there for a reason -- they teach us valuable lessons which help us survive and grow. Without them, we probably wouldn't even survive as a species.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-73277929907859436622012-07-10T22:58:08.740-04:002012-07-10T22:58:08.740-04:00"I need my pain" from ST-V always remind..."I need my pain" from ST-V always reminds me of Heinlein's novel Starship Troopers where the Moral Philosophy teacher lectures his students on the value of pain as a mechanism for survival. Pain teaches us caution.Mycrofthttp://mycrofth4.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-19981278656664268272012-07-10T22:57:00.493-04:002012-07-10T22:57:00.493-04:00Thanks Ben!
Isn't it amazing how much they co...Thanks Ben!<br /><br />Isn't it amazing how much they could pack into these episodes? And it's done so cleverly that you never notice the politics unless you stop to really think about the message. Very impressive!<br /><br />On Marx: Yes, just like a Borg. I can tell you that I would never be happy living in a world like that, but the utopians really thought they could make people be happy that way. I can't imagine how anyone could believe that, but they really do think it -- at least, they used to. Today the left is all about envy, as you say. It's not about building anything up so much as it is about taking from those who have and giving to those who have been loyal.<br /><br />Good point -- without envy, thievery and force, the left wouldn't exist.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-28764629474247495742012-07-10T22:47:00.126-04:002012-07-10T22:47:00.126-04:00Outstanding post, Andrew!
This is a great episode...Outstanding post, Andrew!<br /><br />This is a great episode. You're right, they really pack a lot into a 45min show. ST had a phenominal group of writers.<br /><br />"AndrewPrice said... <br />T-Rav, The thing is, that's what Marx's goal was. He was trying to create a world where basically everything runs so smoothly you no longer need a government or anything else."<br /><br />Like a bee hive or ant hill. Or like the borg. <br />And no one would be happy so lobotomy's would be required or some kind of genetic "modification."<br /><br />On the way to that "utopia" the government will be required to take away everyone's liberty (except for the elite, of course) and money/property so they can equally dispense it back to the owners (govt. is so benevolent!) minus virtually all of it (except for the elite rulers, of course. Afterall, they need more money because they have more responsibility running our lives, plus, they work harder).<br /><br />Envy is a major cornerstone of leftism. Whether it is socialism, communism or fascism (or any combination of the three) there must be envy and class warfare to ensure everyone but the elites are equally miserable.<br /><br />Where there is envy there is bitterness and greed. This enables "the people" to rat on anyone who has more than they do.<br />Any luxuries or black market items/dealings will also be reported to their elite masters.<br /><br />This is encouraged (it's the law) and rewarded.<br />Ain't the government benevolent? <br /><br />Without envy, thievery and force there would be no leftism in any form.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-13866168791939223222012-07-10T18:46:42.091-04:002012-07-10T18:46:42.091-04:00T-Rav, The thing is, that's what Marx's go...T-Rav, The thing is, that's what Marx's goal was. He was trying to create a world where basically everything runs so smoothly you no longer need a government or anything else. The government was supposed to simply cease to exist because it wasn't needed anymore and everyone would be these evolved people who were completely unselfish and everyone would work together to benefit everyone equally.<br /><br />That is what Marx and the others thought would be the ultimate state of the world after everyone was a communist. And that's the idea that has drawn people to Marxism for so long -- the idea of ultimate equality and everyone being happy with it.<br /><br />But as you and I know, that is crap -- to say the least. It flies in the face of human nature and it assumes that everyone has the same goals, needs and desires. It's an idea a child would come up with because they've never met people outside their little protective bubble.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-12710322720209174752012-07-10T18:34:29.812-04:002012-07-10T18:34:29.812-04:00Andrew and PikeBishop, there's a quote from Tr...Andrew and PikeBishop, there's a quote from Trotsky that falls in line with what Marx envisioned. He believed that once the world had achieved true communism, mankind would evolve to the point where the average man would be an Aristotle, and some even greater. It's not the battiest thing ever dreamed up by a utopian, but in terms of the means Marx advocated and his far-flung influence, it's certainly the most destructive.T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-70662448552588632012-07-10T16:42:09.761-04:002012-07-10T16:42:09.761-04:00PikeBishop, What I always found interesting about ...PikeBishop, What I always found interesting about Marx was the idea that ultimately he envisions a world without government, but that he thinks an all-powerful government is the tool to getting there.<br /><br />In terms of him being a romantic, much of what he said indeed sounds good to idealists. He's talking about utopia and better people and a happier world. So a lot of people fall for what he's selling. The problem is that his methods are twisted and wrong and won't achieve the goals he's trying to achieve.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-33090252804456524232012-07-10T16:39:53.575-04:002012-07-10T16:39:53.575-04:00Anthony, I agree with that. I think commercially ...Anthony, I agree with that. I think commercially proven formulas trump politics 90% of the time in Hollywood. And the father/son dynamic has proven its worth since Ancient Greece.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-29294215940202428442012-07-10T16:38:18.260-04:002012-07-10T16:38:18.260-04:00Jed, That's a pretty good approximation of the...Jed, That's a pretty good approximation of the liberal justification for government. Man may be good at times, but his evil side will come out in a crisis, so we need a government to make sure the evil stays in check during the crisis.<br /><br />I really enjoyed this episode for the same reasons, and I think it stuck with me for the same reasons. This was the first (and still possibly the only) show I've seen that suggests that we need both of our halves. I think it's a brilliant observation and I still think back to this episode whenever anyone tells me that they wish they could eliminate people's darker sides.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-61858969147567502602012-07-10T15:55:32.782-04:002012-07-10T15:55:32.782-04:00Also a lot of people forget that Marx is often cla...Also a lot of people forget that Marx is often classified as a "romantic" philosopher. He beleived that everntually labor saving devices woudld allow man to pursue pasttimes like art and literature and not worry about fighting for survivial. Of course in between that rosy future and the present an awful lot of eggs would have to be broken.PikeBishophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05761380937971970762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-40245771230665929482012-07-10T15:39:14.927-04:002012-07-10T15:39:14.927-04:00T-Rav said...
Uh-oh. Is the Star Trek reboot secr...T-Rav said... <br />Uh-oh. Is the Star Trek reboot secretly insinuating that one-parent households aren't a good thing? Someone better alert the PC police! <br /><br />---<br />I just think that is embracing the standard movie cliche of a young, fatherless guy finding his destiny with the help of a wise mentor. Think Star Wars, Karate Kid, Hellboy and countless other films.<br /><br />I don't think Hollywood is as committed to liberalism as they are committed to using commercially successful formulas ad infinitum.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16124128949343301445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-51560120341939360232012-07-10T15:37:05.576-04:002012-07-10T15:37:05.576-04:00If I were trying to argue the liberal side, I thin...If I were trying to argue the liberal side, I think I'd try and run with this: "Liberals do realize that man cannot totally change their darker side. This is why centralized government programs are required to insure necessities like health care are available to all. It might be nice if charities picked up the slack for the needy, but in a pinch, the greedy side takes over, so government has to step in and force the action." ** this is not a quote, rather I put it in quotes to a composite liberal! :)<br /><br />This was one of my absolute favorite shows. Shatner did a fantastic job of playing both halves of Kirk's personality with only the minimal amount of "overacting" necessitated. I loved it because I don't think I had ever really considered how true the show's premise was. You really do need both your better and darker half to be complete.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.com