tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post927938288015301080..comments2024-03-05T21:05:36.848-05:00Comments on CommentaramaFilms: The Great (film) Debates vol. 16AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-10718906213128979122011-12-04T12:11:47.643-05:002011-12-04T12:11:47.643-05:00Sean Connery is the best.
No debate.
Piece Brosna...Sean Connery is the best.<br />No debate.<br /><br />Piece Brosnan was the Bond I grew up with, however.<br />And Daniel Craig ain;t bad.Kitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-49807825929699164992011-11-28T11:37:14.335-05:002011-11-28T11:37:14.335-05:00tryanmax, I agree on both points. The fact Conner...tryanmax, I agree on both points. The fact Connery didn't end up typecast by the role is really impressive, especially when you consider that Roger Moore did, even though he had a longer career before playing the role and he wasn't even the first or best Bond. If anybody should have been typecast, it should have been Connery.<br /><br />On finding the perfect Bond, I think you're right. I used to think at one point it was just nostalgia -- that people just got used to having it one way and couldn't accept a "new guy." But Craig really has proven that wrong. I think it's exactly what you say with Connery really having the perfect package and the rest failing by missing parts of that package.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-23396357293878057772011-11-27T12:52:14.798-05:002011-11-27T12:52:14.798-05:00Andrew, I've been pondering your conundrum:
i...Andrew, I've been pondering your conundrum: <br /><i>it makes it really hard to explain how to figure out who is right if we can't even agree why the rest were wrong.</i><br /><br />It seems to me that everyone agrees that Bond should possess a certain set of qualities in certain proportions and that Connery best displays them all. The other Bonds, however, do not posses all the same qualities in the same amounts and the disagreement becomes about which qualities are essential, which are diminishable, and which are expendable.<br /><br />In that light, it is quite easy to explain why Connery is the right Bond--he's the total package. No single trait makes him Bond, it is the sum total. But start taking pieces away and there is plenty of room to argue which must stay and which can go while leaving Bond recognizable. <br /><br />While I'm at it, something needs to be acknowledged about Connery the actor in relation to the Bond role. The role is so iconic, and he played it so well, he could have easily been trapped in it, but he wasn't. That says something about what it takes to portray the perfect Bond.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-71231774688738574182011-11-22T00:33:14.689-05:002011-11-22T00:33:14.689-05:00Kenn, Topol was great. He would have made a great...Kenn, Topol was great. He would have made a great villain as well.<br /><br />I liked those bikes a lot in the film, but I have to wonder if they would actually work in the real world. So long as you were on deep snow, they would probably work, but the moment you came near solid ground, I would bet the spikes would shatter and tear the tires apart. Still, it was one of those neat Bond-moments where they found something that seems like it should work.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-66309630481738933492011-11-22T00:25:37.144-05:002011-11-22T00:25:37.144-05:00Never really got that much into the whole "Bo...Never really got that much into the whole "Bond" thing. Did like "For Your Eyes Only." Thought it had some very imaginative (and humorous) action scenes - and it had Topol - as the is he/isn't he the real bad guy.<br /><br />Yeah Moore was getting a little long in the tooth - but the story seemed very cohesive and moved along at a swift pace, for the time.<br /><br />Didn't hurt - having all those cool chase scenes with spike-tired motorcycles in the snow - being raised in that type of climate, most of my life. (No - no spike-tired motorcycles where I lived, sorry to say.)Kenn Christensonhttp://www.kennfilms.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-59737905265322261492011-11-21T11:34:55.478-05:002011-11-21T11:34:55.478-05:00tryanmax, I think it's interesting that (1) ev...tryanmax, I think it's interesting that (1) everyone agrees Connery is the man, and (2) beyond that, everyone has very different views of the Bonds. It's fascinating because it tells us there is a "right" choice, and but it makes it really hard to explain how to figure out who is right if we can't even agree why the rest were wrong. Interesting!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-61823491488214421892011-11-21T11:31:33.734-05:002011-11-21T11:31:33.734-05:00RetroHound, I have a hard time separating Dalton f...RetroHound, I have a hard time separating Dalton from his scripts. They really sucked the suave out of him and just made him gritty and upset.<br /><br />I do enjoy Dalton the actor by the way, especially as Prince Baron in <i>Flash Gordon</i> and many of the later things I've seen him in.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-24002345011290991382011-11-21T10:47:15.531-05:002011-11-21T10:47:15.531-05:00I realize I haven’t put out my full list. So here ...I realize I haven’t put out my full list. So here it is:<br /><br />1. Connery – need I say why?<br />2. Dalton – whom I’ve addressed.<br />3. Craig – a very good but not quite total package.<br />4. Early Moore – for the same reasons others have mentioned.<br />5. Brosnan – he just seems so <i>cheesy</i> to me, moreso than any other.<br />6. Late Moore – also for the same reasons others have mentioned.<br /><br />I can’t fairly rate Lazenby because I’ve never seen <i>On Her Majesty's Secret Service</i>.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-73115168175457245922011-11-21T10:10:00.806-05:002011-11-21T10:10:00.806-05:00Ok now I've read the comments.
AndrewPrice! ...Ok now I've read the comments.<br /><br />AndrewPrice! You don't think Dalton has suaveness? Are you nuts? The BBC uses him for that all the time!Retro Houndhttp://www.retrohound.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-6761730188276076592011-11-21T09:55:46.897-05:002011-11-21T09:55:46.897-05:00Connery, Dalton (yes his scripts were lousy, but I...Connery, Dalton (yes his scripts were lousy, but I thought he had the charm and he looked like he beat you up unlike some of the others), Craig, Brosnon, Moore. Haven't seen Lazenby yet and I don't count Niven. Couldn't make it through 30 minutes of his try.Retro Houndhttp://www.retrohound.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-89985258793178829872011-11-20T23:50:01.364-05:002011-11-20T23:50:01.364-05:00tryanmax, I actually haven't seen those.tryanmax, I actually haven't seen those.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-28405099602364333332011-11-20T23:47:28.692-05:002011-11-20T23:47:28.692-05:00You were into T-Dal before it was cool! LOL!
In t...You were into T-Dal before it was cool! LOL!<br /><br />In terms of having "the glint," I still go with Connery first and Craig second. They are the only two I think who have both the suaveness and the brutality mixed with an indifference to the brutality that I think the character needs.<br /><br />After that it gets tricky. I agree that Dalton is more easily a killer than the rest, but personally I think he lacks the calm/suaveness needed for the job. I think Brosnan has the suaveness in spades, BUT I don't believe he can kill anyone. Early Roger Moore had the potential to have both, but late Roger Moore really had neither. Lazenby had class, but lacked seriousness and was too stiff. So for me, it would be hard to choose between them if I was remaking <i>Dr. No</i>.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-26228365768149979812011-11-20T23:45:43.216-05:002011-11-20T23:45:43.216-05:00For some reason, I feel now compelled to talk up M...For some reason, I feel now compelled to talk up Michael Caine's Harry Palmer as sort of an anti-Bond. And yet, not a complete anti-Bond because he has some of that same "glint" that Connery has.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-69901366166194166792011-11-20T23:36:16.290-05:002011-11-20T23:36:16.290-05:00I guess I took the question as being about Bond po...I guess I took the question as being about Bond portrayals rather than Bond films. I agree that the austerity of the Dalton films is a general disappointment. In an overall sense, it is difficult for a character portrayal to overcome that. But if you just look at the Bonds themselves, I see Dalton as the only one besides Connery to have that glint in his eye. (Some see it in Brosnan where I only see cheese.)<br /><br />The other difficulty is that he only has two movies to judge by. That's a handicap since most people will rank him lower on the basis on not really feeling like they "knew" that Bond. Lazenby gets similar marks to Dalton. <br /><br />I have noticed, however, that there is sort of a hipster draw towards T-Dal, so I feel it imperative to note that I was into T-Dal's Bond before it was cool.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-66578661986405026622011-11-20T22:57:44.508-05:002011-11-20T22:57:44.508-05:00T-Rav, Their level of creativity is surprisingly l...T-Rav, Their level of creativity is surprisingly low for such a high dollar project.<br /><br />In fact, the film that really brought that home to me was <i>True Lies</i>. As I watched that, realized that would have made a great Bond movie, and it was better than anything I'd seen in Bond since probably <i>For Your Eyes Only</i> or even <i>Spy Who Loved Me</i>. But instead of <i>True Lies</i> we were getting the same old story line -- stolen military hardware used for extortion, wanting to start a superpower war, laser beams to blow things up.<br /><br />I give <i>Casino Royal</i> tremendous credit for taking a guy who is nothing more than a banker and making him into a really cool villain.<br /><br />The love story bothered me because it goes against his character. We're told throughout the movie (repeatedly in fact) that Bond is totally sociopathic and doesn't care about anyone. We see this too as he ruins lives and gets people killed without a single second thought. But then suddenly, he falls so deeply in love with a woman who is cold and hard to like, and who he never really spends much time with, that he's willing to give up the job that seems to be his life's goal? It just doesn't work for me.<br /><br />I would lop off the last few minutes of the film where she gets killed and replace it with the bad guy just escaping.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-31792658938643981762011-11-20T22:50:01.143-05:002011-11-20T22:50:01.143-05:00tryanmax, Everyone is entitled to their own opinio...tryanmax, Everyone is entitled to their own opinions! LOL! :)<br /><br />I absolutely agree about the Moore films. I think Moore never embraced the role as it was and he tried to make it into something very different. As a result, his character became comedic and weak, at least by the end. Dalton injected more youth back into the role, but his problem was this was the era of small thinking for Bond. So they gave him a sensible car, cut down on the number of Bond girls, and made the villains much more small time -- gun runners and drug dealers. These aren't villains Connery would even have bothered with.<br /><br />I really welcomed the change to Brosnan because they wanted to make the character larger again with him. Unfortunately, they just never managed to get the hang of getting worthwhile villains.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-42366683860018603652011-11-20T22:48:05.369-05:002011-11-20T22:48:05.369-05:00In the "better late than never" departme...In the "better late than never" department...<br /><br />The love story that was the last segment of "Casino Royale" was a little maudlin, I agree. But I didn't mind it too much, because this was very much an origins story for Bond. It's not hard to see how he could grow into the kind of person he is within the context of that storyline. <br /><br />Agree on Clive Owen. I like him, but he's more of a mercenary than he is a suave spy. <br /><br />Incidentally, something that's always irritated me about the films is how they often recycle plot elements. Specifically, it seems like every third movie you have some psycho with a death ray in space. "Diamonds Are Forever," "GoldenEye," "Die Another Day," and probably a half-dozen more I don't remember. Mix it up, people!T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-80271175979648684652011-11-20T22:40:08.470-05:002011-11-20T22:40:08.470-05:00Ha! I totally missed your last comment, Andrew. I ...Ha! I totally missed your last comment, Andrew. I just jumped in and wrote my thought down. Funny!tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-77965806577180849182011-11-20T22:38:58.524-05:002011-11-20T22:38:58.524-05:00While Connery is my favorite Bond, bearing just th...While Connery is my favorite Bond, bearing just the right combination of charm, wit, and toughness, my second favorite is T-Dal. (Though, by rights, I should probably be in the Brosnan camp with Scott, seeing as I was only 9 when <i>License to Kill</i> came out.)<br /><br />For me, it's because you can tell he really loved the role. To wit, unlike Moore, who said he never cared for Flemming's work, Dalton was known to continuously reference the source material on set. But beyond the trivia, I think Dalton's portrayal of Bond the second most convincing. <br /><br />Plus, I think <i>License to Kill</i> was a turn for the gritty. It's my opinion that the Moore films were getting a bit mellow. Dalton may have only done a couple films, but he breathed life back into the franchise at a time when it needed it.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-78056565221149896092011-11-20T18:06:38.994-05:002011-11-20T18:06:38.994-05:00Outlaw, I agree that Moore depends on which film. ...Outlaw, I agree that Moore depends on which film. Some of his films really just stank and others were quite good.<br /><br />It's kind of rare for anyone to say they liked Dalton a lot. I barely even think of him as Bond.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-69121491528640229552011-11-20T18:04:59.749-05:002011-11-20T18:04:59.749-05:00Scott, The motorcycle chase was well done, but the...Scott, The motorcycle chase was well done, but the rest just didn't work for me.<br /><br />In terms of the villain, I don't think he would be any better received today because he was just so poorly written. He's one of those characters with unbelievable nearly-omniscient powers, but no idea what to really do with them.<br /><br />This is one of the classic believability problems -- he's a guy whose motives make no sense because he already has more money than he can use and this is a real Rube Goldberg way of getting more money.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-47710168576456535622011-11-20T17:23:29.865-05:002011-11-20T17:23:29.865-05:00I agree with Floyd on the pecking order:
Connery,...I agree with Floyd on the pecking order:<br /><br />Connery, Craig, Lazenby, Moore, Brosnan, Dalton<br /><br />Although Moore may actually rank lower depending on which film we are talking about. I love "Live and Let Die" but from "Moonraker" on...yuck. <br /><br />Dalton: Do. Not. Like.Outlaw13https://www.blogger.com/profile/17232117096525959967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-10743192198889621302011-11-20T17:01:34.728-05:002011-11-20T17:01:34.728-05:00Andrew -
Re: Tomorrow Never Dies, I remember lik...Andrew - <br /><br />Re: <i>Tomorrow Never Dies</i>, I remember liking it a lot, especially the car chase in which Bond operated the vehicle via cell phone, but I watched the film again on DVD a few years ago and I didn't like it as much. (Don't get me wrong, it's still an entertaining two hours.)<br /><br />I like Jonathan Pryce a lot but he was a little too "mustache-twirling" for my taste. I get what they were trying to do - I wonder if the corrupt media angle would play better today - but it comes across as "Bond lite" at times.<br /><br />But the film does a few things well: Q, the teaser, the songs (Sheryl Crow does the opening song which replaced a different song by k.d. lang which plays at the end), and the motorcycle chase. This was also the first Bond film scored by David Arnold who has scored them all since.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-48516243638085721282011-11-20T14:46:35.201-05:002011-11-20T14:46:35.201-05:00ScyFyTerry, That seems to be the consensus about C...ScyFyTerry, That seems to be the consensus about Connery.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-87261639781307017162011-11-20T14:42:41.171-05:002011-11-20T14:42:41.171-05:00Connery is the best, the rest aren't even clos...Connery is the best, the rest aren't even close. Connery, Moore, Craig, Brosnan, Lazenby, Dalton.ScyFyterryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12635510395140863437noreply@blogger.com