tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post7938230557032668406..comments2024-03-05T21:05:36.848-05:00Comments on CommentaramaFilms: Guest Review: Gettysburg (1993)AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-27605050807678634782011-07-08T16:11:48.525-04:002011-07-08T16:11:48.525-04:00Scott - thanks for your encouragement. I figured y...Scott - thanks for your encouragement. I figured you must have been on the road since you normally comment on films ;-). I noticed that once they released the Gettysburg, Blu-Ray, now they are adding G&G. Naturally, I'll get it, and maybe, just maybe the extra footage will help.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-14272283337175514882011-07-07T21:52:09.260-04:002011-07-07T21:52:09.260-04:00Sorry I'm late!
I still haven't seen thi...Sorry I'm late! <br /><br />I still haven't seen this film but I enjoyed the hell out of Jed's review. As for <i>Gods and Generals</i>, the recently-released Blu-Ray includes a longer 280-minute cut of the film (theatrical version was 219 minutes).<br /><br />Patriotic films, eh? I'll name one: <i>The Right Stuff</i>. In fact, you should do some kind of "Quintessential American moments in film" poll. One of mine is the scene from this film when the guys are outside barbecuing and a plane flies overhead. Sure enough, they look up, instantly identify it, and start commenting. Go to <a href="http://youtu.be/a0wHzKzZ5rM" rel="nofollow">10:23</a>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-44081243259534756462011-07-04T01:26:44.392-04:002011-07-04T01:26:44.392-04:00Jed, I think the female hero thing is pretty cynic...Jed, I think the female hero thing is pretty cynical actually because Hollywood has learned to sell them as two contradictory things. First, they sell these women as "hot chicks" to male audience members, with the idea being that men will watch to satisfy sexual urges. But then they turn around and sell feminists the line that these are "strong women."<br /><br />It's truly cynical and I find it rather disturbing how easily Hollywood sells both points at once and how happily actresses play along.<br /><br />I haven't read much from Larson either, just snippets, but I've read about his politics. I was amazed just to discover that this is largely the domain of conservatives -- as you never hear about conservatives in publishing. But then you start to list out authors in this field (like Tom Clancy) and you quickly find a lot of conservatives. Interesting!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-65020900995831988872011-07-04T00:17:19.983-04:002011-07-04T00:17:19.983-04:00That is an interesting point about action thriller...That is an interesting point about action thrillers, Andrew; one which I had not considered. I'll admit I have not read any of the Larson books. It appears he has been extremely successful, but I had not been aware of his political leanings. After reading your comment, I checked out his website, and the only thing I was able to glean out of it is the protagonist is apparently a kick-ass female action hero (?)<br /><br />That certainly appears to be a theme in current Hollywood action t.v. series. Lots of great looking women in roles as cops, lawyers. They all have hip hugging jeans, tank tops and blazers. I see the continued thrust of portraying women as leaders, in position of authority, and able to subdue big thuggish males. Most recent is a new CBS series this fall which is a remake of "Prime Suspect."<br /><br />The reasoning, I suppose, is to reinforce that women can do anything, and shouldn't "settle" for more traditional female roles. Up to a point, that is o.k., I guess, but at some point, it becomes obvious, boring, and extremely unrealistic. But, that is good old La La land for you.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-35592697169317990502011-07-03T22:05:35.670-04:002011-07-03T22:05:35.670-04:00Jed, I may read it. I've got a huge backlog a...Jed, I may read it. I've got a huge backlog at the moment, but I'll see if I can't fit it in somewhere.<br /><br />In terms of whether it's 100% true or not, I can't think of a book about combat that doesn't get that criticism -- especially in the modern world where things happen so quickly and so explosively. Also, sadly, a lot of people have axes to grind and their nemesis publishing a book is usually a great chance to grind away.<br /><br />In terms of Hollywood, your guess is as good as mine. I know the process, but what I don't know is where the political NVKD officers are located. In other words, what happens if you get conservatives all along the line -- at what point do the liberal thought police step in and refuse to distribute the movie? Maybe at the studio?<br /><br />As an interesting aside, I read the other day that most action thrillers are written by conservatives -- something liberals find very frustrating. Thus, they are pushing liberals like this Steig Larson guy.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-57055299467281489192011-07-03T21:30:16.485-04:002011-07-03T21:30:16.485-04:00Andrew - thanks for doing the links :D
I really t...Andrew - thanks for doing the links :D<br /><br />I really think you would enjoy the book. I honestly don't know if there is any proof any of the facts were embellished, but we are talking about the worst disaster ever for the SEALS. Incredible heroism, involved.<br /><br />I know Berg had done a somewhat favorable film previously, so I have this sneaking suspicion he is a closet moderate. Ridley Scott did a good job with Blackhawk Down so he would have been a good choice. I remember "chatting" with Gary Graham about the book and film. I had hoped he could get a cameo as an instructor or something.<br /><br />There are some stories that are too populat to ignore. This is one, and of course, there are plans to make a film out of "American Assassin" which is the "origins" story of Mitch Rapp, Vince Flynn's version of a straight arrow supersized Jack Bauer. I always envisioned Rapp as a younger version of Fox News Corp.'s Brett Bair. Since I doubt he is available, maybe Eric Bana?<br /><br />Anyway, I always wonder about how films get made from who buys the rights, secures the financial backing etc. Maybe that is critical to whether a film gets made or not. Surnow is a good example. I'm not sure people knew his politics when 24 first got green lighted. Later, after he was no longer with the show, we got little middle fingers thrown at us like Jeanne Garofolo. Maybe the fact the wars are winding down and Bush is no longer having to run for anything makes the difference. I keep expecting to hear an announcement on the killing of Bin Laden with James Earl Jones as Obama, Halley Berry as Hillary, and Harrison Ford as the C.I.A. guy . . . . oh wait, they already did that and called it Patriot Games. Oh well.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-18218223234570744102011-07-03T20:40:01.153-04:002011-07-03T20:40:01.153-04:00Ben, "The Dirty Dozen" is one of my all ...Ben, "The Dirty Dozen" is one of my all time favorites. I can watch that over and over.<br /><br /><br />Jed & Ben, I have not read the Lutrell book, but it's interesting that Hollywood is finally going to make a pro-American film about the Middle East. Maybe they're learning their lesson? Or maybe this is just during the Obama administration? I guess we'll see.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-77174250978868570322011-07-03T20:37:43.151-04:002011-07-03T20:37:43.151-04:00Jed, Here are your links.
Luttrell
and
IMDBJed, Here are your links.<br /><br /><a href="http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/01/13/lone_survivor_smackdown" rel="nofollow">Luttrell</a><br /><br />and<br /><br /><a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1091191/" rel="nofollow">IMDB</a>AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-66191439409074458382011-07-03T19:47:56.497-04:002011-07-03T19:47:56.497-04:00here is the "link" to the film:
http://...here is the "link" to the film:<br /><br />http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1091191/Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-50080132361517732262011-07-03T18:56:20.032-04:002011-07-03T18:56:20.032-04:00BTW, I am technically incompetent to post a real l...BTW, I am technically incompetent to post a real link, but here is an interesting site which takes exception to the account given by Luttrell. In my view, the actual number is almost irrelevant-- I have nothing but admiration for those guys and I think it will make a hell of a movie even if slightly embellished.<br /><br />http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/01/13/lone_survivor_smackdownTennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-43973254632122676302011-07-03T18:48:55.137-04:002011-07-03T18:48:55.137-04:00I would like to see Saratoga as part of a film bec...I would like to see Saratoga as part of a film because my 4G grandfather, David Goddard served the future country by giving his life there. Luckily for me, he died after fathering my 3G grandmother ;-)<br /><br />I am a guy who has enjoyed Mel Gibson over the years, but admit "The Patriot" was probably not his best. Earlier in the comments, we were talking about the lack of CGI in "Gettysburg." They were used aplenty in Mel's film which duplicated the battle of Cowpens in north western South Carolina. They weren't the worst CGI ever on film, but it probably underscores the points made by both Andrew and Kosh.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-85296514301573959832011-07-03T18:29:08.289-04:002011-07-03T18:29:08.289-04:00Ben - I have read Lone Survivor. Great news in my ...Ben - I have read Lone Survivor. Great news in my opinion is that Peter Berg (Friday Night Lights and the Kingdom) is signed on to direct and Taylor Kitch who played Tim Riggins on Friday Night Lights will star as Marcus Lutrell. I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-32242249160953817922011-07-03T17:47:36.254-04:002011-07-03T17:47:36.254-04:00I concur, Jed.
I wonder how long we'll have to...I concur, Jed.<br />I wonder how long we'll have to wait for a decent movie about the Revolutionary War?<br /><br />If done accurately it would be a very engrossing movie, I think. <br />I'm surprised that not one good one has been made yet. <br />Morso surprised that golden and silver age hollywood hasn't shown any interest.<br />Not surprised that the current hollywood hasn't. <br /><br />I also agree with your assessment. Washington, and his officers learned early on to start thinking outside the box.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-12787721912685501192011-07-03T17:38:36.140-04:002011-07-03T17:38:36.140-04:00Thanks Jed! Happy Independence Day to you, Jed and...Thanks Jed! Happy Independence Day to you, Jed and all you guys n' gals! <br /><br />Andrew: Aye! Those are excellent flicks too! Brings to mind The Dirty Dozen. <br /><br />BTW, I look foreward to Lone Survivor the movie (not sure if that'll be the title but that's the book title) in the next year or so.<br /><br />It'll be based on the book written by Navy SEAL Marcus Luttrell of SEAL team 10, the only SEAL to survive operation Redwing.<br /><br />He and his team faced over 120 Taliban (with reinforcements coming to help) and they had rocket launchers.<br /><br />I highly recommend the book. It's compelling and impossible to put down.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-3806972584537973182011-07-03T17:32:52.211-04:002011-07-03T17:32:52.211-04:00I was a huge fan of North and South, both the book...I was a huge fan of North and South, both the books by John Jakes and the mini-series based on them. I also enjoyed The Blue & Gray based on James McPherson's work. A line that stuck with me from that during a barn dance where soldiers from both sides attended with some local women, the young kid said "you sure don't sweat much for a big ole fat girl." and she replied something like "you're not so bad yourself."<br /><br />I liked Heartbreak Ridge as well, and the great line uttered by "Swede" before he fought Clint Eastwood. ;-)<br /><br />I tend to like most historical military films. The Revolutionary War has never been well represented, although Jeff Daniels did a good Washington in the Crossing. Before moving to Minnesota, I lived very near Washington's Crossing for a few years. Trenton, to me, was his best effort, and New York his worst.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-31875388082856091732011-07-03T16:56:35.869-04:002011-07-03T16:56:35.869-04:00Thanks for your kind words and comments, Ben and h...Thanks for your kind words and comments, Ben and happy 4th weekend. It was my hope to inspire people to view the movie, either for the first time or as a repeat. Hopefully, my review and the group's comments can add a slightly different perspective for some readers.<br /><br />Like Lee, Washington was great primarily great because of his leadership and inspirational qualities rather than any great tactical or strategic skills.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-24103100304365905872011-07-03T16:52:54.045-04:002011-07-03T16:52:54.045-04:00Ben, My favorite war movies kind of fluctuate. So...Ben, My favorite war movies kind of fluctuate. Sometimes I like the more filmy-films like <i>Where Eagles Dare</i> and <i>Kelly's Heroes</i>, sometimes I like the more realistic stuff like <i>Gettysburg</i> or <i>Band of Brothers</i>, and sometimes I like more historic stuff like <i>Midway</i>, <i>Tora Tora Tora</i> or <i>Longest Day</i>.<br /><br />A couple of interesting ones I really like are a German movie called <i>Stalingrad</i> and <i>Das Boot</i> and a Finnish film about the Soviet invasion in 1938 called <i>Talvisota</i> (The Winter War).<br /><br />If I could only watch one war movie ever again, it would probably be <i>Zulu</i>.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-47660439038992171072011-07-03T15:52:59.725-04:002011-07-03T15:52:59.725-04:00Andrew:
My favorite war films:
Most WW2 war flick...Andrew:<br /><br />My favorite war films:<br />Most WW2 war flicks, Midway, Tora Tora Tora, Iwo Jima, To Hell And Back, etc.<br /><br />Also, the entire Combat! series is very good. <br /><br />There's not many vietnam war films I like, but We Were Soldiers is outstanding and I love the part where the reporter starts fighting when it looked really bleak. <br />Green Berets is another good one, IMO, and I can excuse the obvious preaching in light of all the anti-war propaganda and lies the MSM was forcing down our collective throats.<br /><br />Our military didn't lose that war...our yellow politicians prevented them from winning it with help from the MSM in the later years.<br /><br />Heartbreak Ridge: I know, Grenada was hardly a blip, but those guys still faced real bullets and stupid officer mistakes that could've been more disasterous if the enlisted men hadn't filled the void.<br /><br />Battle: Los Angeles is a recent one I really liked a lot after a string of over a dozen anti-American/anti-military films...all of which flopped at the box office.<br /><br />It's fictionous, but it portrays the theme of self sacrifice, honor and courage of our troops accurately.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-3586312139743700972011-07-03T15:34:40.881-04:002011-07-03T15:34:40.881-04:00Great review Jed!
I recall liking Gettysburg but ...Great review Jed!<br /><br />I recall liking Gettysburg but I wanna see it again now.<br /><br />My wife and I recently saw the entire North And South series, and although I liked it too, there were more than a few moments that required a suspension of disbelief.<br /><br />Plus, I love Loyd Bridges (he's es muy macho! Old SNL skit...very old), but a few times I expected him to say: <br />"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue," lol. <br /><br />On a more serious note, IRT America's greatest general, I would have to go with George Washington.<br /><br />He faced far greater odds than Gen. Lee and far worst weather.<br />No military strategist could look at Washington's meager forces and supplies and expect him and his men to defeat the British.<br /><br />Washington credited Divine Providence, and I can't argue with that, however, Washington and his men still had to keep fighting despite seemingly hopeless odds against the British and the weather and hunger.<br /><br />And Washington had to keep their moral up enough to do that as well as keep the support of his supporters who came so very close to giving in to despair and conventional logic: we can't win.<br /><br />Washington found the words to convince them otherwise.<br /><br />I do have the utmost respect for Lee, however. I agree he is the best general of the civil war and arguably the second best after Washington. <br /><br />What makes great generals great isn't always the tactics and strategies they use, but how much they inspire their men to keep fighting with everything they have (particularly in the face of seemingly overwhelming odds). <br /><br />Great generals also garner the utmost respect of their men. Patton comes to mind of course, as does great Navy admirals such as John Paul Jones.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-54123513855798737012011-07-01T01:25:18.409-04:002011-07-01T01:25:18.409-04:00T-Rav; I do know about the Gordon and Barlow conne...T-Rav; I do know about the Gordon and Barlow connection, a great story. I have a wonderful book of Winslow Homer's paintings including this one with the back story. The Gordon who he read was killed turned out to be a different person. Gordon was certainly one of the great generals in the war. I think he may have been chosen to participate in the ceremonial surrender with Chamberlain, if memory serves.<br /><br />As for "old Pete" I have a great biography of Longstreet by noted historian Jeffrey Wert. Great detail on his whole career, and, of course, Gettysburg. Longstreet had Lee's confidence. No one was braver. Wert along with others feels Longstreet deserved censure for his actions at Gettysburg. He had a very good and close relationship with Lee, and as such, had the ability to speak much more freely than other subordinates, but came perilously close to crossing a line. At some point, after you have voiced your dissent, you need to support your superior's decision whole heartedly.<br /><br />That said, as always, things are a little more complicated than they seem. One of the problems was, in the position after day 1, Lee's army was spread over a longer line causing communications to take longer. Longstreet, compared to Jackson had always been slower and he had, by far, the largest corp. His corp was last to arrive, were strung out over the farthest distance, and their were plenty of mix ups, so the delay in his attack on day two was not just due to his own foot dragging. His soldiers performed admirably exploiting Sickles aggregious forward shift, and came very close to breaking the union right. Meade, with a shorter line was able to shift enough troops around that coupled with some valorous efforts, saved the day. At the end of the day, Lee's plan was good in theory, but depended on perfect coordination of the two wing attacks. Had everybody been fully in place the night before, and ready to go, it probably would have suceeded. . . . or maybe not, no one can say for certainty and hindsight is 20/20 as they say. Lee had always pulled that stuff off when he just had Longstreet and Jackson, but not this time.<br /><br />Where I take issue with Longstreet is that after the war, he took so much venom and blame by the south, he tended to revise some of his memories, and kind of turned on Lee who was no longer around to defend himself. Ultimately, Lee was the commanding general, and as such, gets the glory for the wins and the second guesses for this big, big loss. He always manned up and took the responsibility.<br /><br />Despite all of that, Longstreet performed wonderfully under Lee for a long time. His own chance at independant command (right here in Knoxville) didn't work out so well.<br /><br />I am glad you are an astute student of this stuff :-)Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-2492152949163934522011-06-30T22:46:34.871-04:002011-06-30T22:46:34.871-04:00Jed, I know of another interesting relationship yo...Jed, I know of another interesting relationship you may know about too. The guy from the Homer painting, Brig. Gen. Francis Barlow, was badly wounded the first day at Gettysburg during the Confederate attack; Brig. Gen. John B. Gordon, leading a Georgia brigade, came upon him and agreed to quickly write down some last words of Barlow's and get them to his loved ones. As it turned out, Barlow survived the battle and the war and met Gordon again twenty years later when they were both Congressmen in Washington! They were close friends for the rest of their lives. <br /><br />Also, regarding Longstreet, I think Foote put it best when he said that the general fully carried out the letter, but not the spirit, of Lee's orders, and of course the Army of Northern Virginia had thrived on the spirit interpretation.T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-73523068702036832152011-06-30T20:46:03.273-04:002011-06-30T20:46:03.273-04:00That's the way I see it Andrew, and I am not a...That's the way I see it Andrew, and I am not a "lost cause" apologist. At the time the civil war generals were going through the point, they were all studying the art of Napoleonic warfare as put forth by Henri Jomini. Most had never even heard of Karl von Clausewitz, let alone read his works on military science.<br /><br />Sometimes, how it all turns out is based on more than strategy and tactics. Sometimes it is the sum of a bunch of guys who were professors of rhetoric who fought their hearts out at just the right time.<br /><br />One aspect of Gettysburg that often gets overlooked. George Meade, and in particular, Win Hancock performed extraordinarily well. They made all the right moves, and a team that had just gone 0-9 over the past year won in the playoffs (using a silly baseball analogy l.o.l.)Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-32880430853878585352011-06-30T20:20:06.859-04:002011-06-30T20:20:06.859-04:00Jed and others, For what it's worth, I used to...Jed and others, For what it's worth, I used to know someone who taught at West Point and he said they routinely identify Lee as the greatest general America has ever produced (and Gen. Mark Clark -- WWII as the worst for his Italian campaign).AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-76431054861801399352011-06-30T20:15:06.738-04:002011-06-30T20:15:06.738-04:00Kosh - your question is absolutely a valid one. Le...Kosh - your question is absolutely a valid one. Lee gave Stuart the freedom to roam. It can be argued, Stuart should have known better, but he was a bit of a cavalier and showboat. Lee learned of the general position of Meade because of Longstreet's scout Harry Harrison (a real historical figure by the way.) He and Longstreet agreed there was a potential to catch Meade's army and crush each corp as it came up, but only if he could get his own troops concentrated quicker himself. He didn't want to engage until he knew for sure, especially on unfamiliar soil. But, Heth's boys got there dander up, and things got out of hand.<br /><br />The southerners won the first day because they got more guys there quicker, and after Reynolds was killed, Union Generals Doubleday and Howard positioned their corps poorly. Ewell was cautious, and a potential fatal rout was averted.<br /><br />So yes, Lee was always ultimately responsible and shouldered the blame. I'm just saying a lot of factors, some not even human error had a huge impact as well.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-79457780881890472692011-06-30T20:04:52.386-04:002011-06-30T20:04:52.386-04:00FR8Jock - thanks for picking that up. Of course it...FR8Jock - thanks for picking that up. Of course it was Maine, and it is hard to believe I missed that in several edits. My only excuse is that I have been writing a lot about the 36th Mass Volunteer Infantry Regiment; my great grandfather's unit. They were mostly attached to General Ambrose Burnsides IX corp. Burnside was from Rhode Island and became governor there.<br /><br />An interesting aside to Little Round Top. The commander of the Confederates trying to over run Chamberlain was William C. Oates. Chamberlain became governor of Maine and Oates became governor of Alabama and were great friends after the war!Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.com