tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post7556106715575479471..comments2024-03-05T21:05:36.848-05:00Comments on CommentaramaFilms: Guest Review: Batman Returns (1992)AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-90165183382648871192012-11-11T22:44:49.512-05:002012-11-11T22:44:49.512-05:00Ben -
Thanks for the kind words and you pretty m...Ben - <br /><br />Thanks for the kind words and you pretty much summed up my feelings exactly. :-)<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-8937921696333917972012-11-11T19:55:03.199-05:002012-11-11T19:55:03.199-05:00Great review, Scott!
I liked this one. Despite th...Great review, Scott!<br /><br />I liked this one. Despite the weaknesses you already covered its still watchable and entertaining.<br /><br />I don't think anyone can match Nolan's take on Batman, but that doesn't mean the Burton Batman is unwatchable or uninteresting. USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-18680065383567835732012-11-08T23:17:09.210-05:002012-11-08T23:17:09.210-05:00obiwan -
That goes back to Burton's initial ...obiwan - <br /><br />That goes back to Burton's initial idea of the character. When asked about the criticism ("We barely see Batman in the movie!"), he would always say that he saw the character as more mysterious, a literal dark knight who preferred the shadows to grand speechifying. <br /><br />With the Burton films, I think the strange attractor for him was not so much Batman but the villains and the ability to create a world that, up till then, had never really been fully realized on film.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-25214071341758452102012-11-08T22:59:30.472-05:002012-11-08T22:59:30.472-05:00Scott, It's absolutely right up your alley. T...Scott, It's absolutely right up your alley. They end up doing advertising and the slogans they come up with are hilarious! I should review it at some point. :)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-21594519868097975422012-11-08T22:53:13.761-05:002012-11-08T22:53:13.761-05:00I always enjoyed the actual Burton Batman films, f...I always enjoyed the actual Burton Batman films, for the angle that Burton gave us Batman. In the Burton films, he gave us a dark, mysterious, version of Batman, which gave the audience a perspective closer to the people in Gotham, as opposed to that of Batman himself, which we got from the Nolan trilogy, where you are essentially given details in a way to essentially feel familiar, or even sympathize with Batman for the most part.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-38156908607872427692012-11-08T22:52:33.104-05:002012-11-08T22:52:33.104-05:00Jed (and Andrew) -
I'm gonna have to watch D...Jed (and Andrew) - <br /><br />I'm gonna have to watch <i>Dream Team</i> one day. I like all those guys so how bad could it be? :-)<br /><br />And I know you weren't knocking <i>Beetlejuice</i> - in fact, while I don't think it's Burton's best movie, I think it might be his most interesting movie.<br /><br />P.S. Andrew, I left a late <i>Star Wars</i> comment earlier in the other thread.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-73200274792116815862012-11-08T22:25:33.269-05:002012-11-08T22:25:33.269-05:00Jed, I saw Dream Team cold... no idea what it was ...Jed, I saw <i>Dream Team</i> cold... no idea what it was about and I laughed my butt off. That was a clever, funny film with a great cast!<br /><br /><br />Nice work on Zooey D.! :)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-51491846862190087292012-11-08T22:24:07.243-05:002012-11-08T22:24:07.243-05:00Oh and a P.S. to Andrew . . While trying to find a...Oh and a P.S. to Andrew . . While trying to find anything to watch, I came across a film on Sony Movie Channel called "All the Real Girls" only to discover it starred . . . omg Zooey Deschanel. Boy did I hit the remote in a hurry.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-74996711844268684232012-11-08T22:21:17.312-05:002012-11-08T22:21:17.312-05:00Scott - l.o.l. about Beetlejuice. I wasn't kno...Scott - l.o.l. about Beetlejuice. I wasn't knocking him for it, just saying it shows off his ability to pale different roles. The film I was trying to think of earlier was called Dream Team. If you haven't seen either of them, Dream Team and Pacific Heights are two films I think you would really enjoy.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-17701874788124330362012-11-08T22:18:26.646-05:002012-11-08T22:18:26.646-05:00Scott, I think Keaton is a guy who hurt himself wi...Scott, I think Keaton is a guy who hurt himself with his film choices. For every <i>Batman</i> there were 3-4 films that just really weren't that great.<br /><br />Putting that aside, I too agree that he's an actor who deserved better. I have a lot of good will for him on film.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-72037943243404360652012-11-08T22:05:12.438-05:002012-11-08T22:05:12.438-05:00Doc -
I guess that seems to be the consensus her...Doc - <br /><br />I guess that seems to be the consensus here. And from the reviews I've read, even though they were often mixed, many folks just didn't like Burton/DeVito's take on the Penguin.<br /><br />I remember the rumor mill for <i>The Dark Knight Rises</i> and people who thought Nolan was going to cast Philip Seymour Hoffman as the Penguin. That obviously didn't happen but it would've been interesting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-19584184312878824272012-11-08T22:03:31.730-05:002012-11-08T22:03:31.730-05:00Jed -
I haven't seen every Keaton movie but ...Jed - <br /><br />I haven't seen every Keaton movie but he just seems so underrated. He's one of those guys that can make a bad movie watchable (not every actor can do that).<br /><br />And <i>Beetlejuice</i> is another favorite of mine going back to childhood.<br /><br />I guess that explains a few things. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-51003123297542021612012-11-08T18:11:30.819-05:002012-11-08T18:11:30.819-05:00I enjoyed this one, but not the next two. I do ag...I enjoyed this one, but not the next two. I do agree with RLAWTX that the Penguin was simply unpleasant to watch and I usually skip his scenes when it comes on television.Doc Whoahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16283308866886912377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-5218037583073789582012-11-08T16:54:09.582-05:002012-11-08T16:54:09.582-05:00Scott, I remember that scene with the shadow trick...Scott, I remember that scene with the shadow trick. It was pretty cool. T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-50595286056642075332012-11-08T15:43:26.563-05:002012-11-08T15:43:26.563-05:00back to Keaton, and his range. Breaks out with com...back to Keaton, and his range. Breaks out with comedy, Mr. Mom and the one about the guys from the mental hospital who help solve a crime. Hooks up with Burton to do the very weird Beetlejuice. Begins to go dark with Batman and does a film I liked a lot called Pacific Heights, and another one called Desperate Measures.<br /><br />I always thought of Arnold as being really smart in choosing his roles. It was o.k. for these guys to play the characters with a little bit of camp. That can actually help keep the mood from going completely dark. Kind of reminds me of Alan Rickman in Die Hard and Robin Hood. Neither film was meant to be camp, but that is what he decided to bring to the table. And, he's pretty good at it.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-52436464798710045922012-11-08T15:29:18.500-05:002012-11-08T15:29:18.500-05:00I'm off to school - I'll be back in a few ...I'm off to school - I'll be back in a few hours!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-11489771703414766592012-11-08T15:19:27.801-05:002012-11-08T15:19:27.801-05:00rla -
Yeah, she does start out as mousy, though ...rla - <br /><br />Yeah, she does start out as mousy, though there's a great shot just before Walken throws her out the window where she looks up at him but she's lit from below and her glasses cast a cool whisker-like shadow on her forehead!<br /><br />I watched the old TV show too (thanks Family Channel!) but I was too young to have such thoughts about Catwoman - now if the film had been released a couple years later... :-)<br /><br />I own the Blu-Ray boxset but I still have to at least watch the Burton films if they're on TV.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-1578795411836414302012-11-08T15:12:45.660-05:002012-11-08T15:12:45.660-05:00I saw both Keaton Batmans at the theater. (and sin...I saw both Keaton Batmans at the theater. (and since I don't generally think of directors, that's how I think of the 1st 2 of the "90s" Batman movies)<br /><br />Penguin was interesting and repulsive, but, for me, he wasn't interesting enough to outweigh the repulsive. Catwoman was great. I had watched the old TV show (in reruns) and enjoyed it, but Catwoman was fully - um - formed for that (some great performances there - she's by far my fav TV character), and having this Catwoman start out "mousey" was great!!<br /><br />I liked Keaton's Batman. I like Bale's more. Kilmer's & Clooney's were worse. <br /><br />I've seen the first one when it comes on TV. I've watched pieces of this one when it comes on, but I channel surf during Penguin parts...rlaWTXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09319344164726195144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-60741665775911689432012-11-08T15:11:04.317-05:002012-11-08T15:11:04.317-05:00T-Rav -
Fair enough. :-)
It's not great but...T-Rav - <br /><br />Fair enough. :-)<br /><br />It's not great but I guess I have fond memories of my dad taking me to see it. I was 12 and thought it was the bee's knees. That was back when I read all the movie magazines and was generally much more excited for summer blockbusters than I am now.<br /><br />There are things to admire about the film (the set design, music, etc.) And next to <i>Batman and Robin</i>, it's Shakespeare!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-49629093761740225162012-11-08T15:06:59.236-05:002012-11-08T15:06:59.236-05:00Scott, I have to disagree. I saw Batman Forever on...Scott, I have to disagree. I saw <i>Batman Forever</i> once. NEVER AGAIN.T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-7986753216246850402012-11-08T14:51:17.223-05:002012-11-08T14:51:17.223-05:00Anon -
Interesting thoughts re: the villains. Sh...Anon - <br /><br />Interesting thoughts re: the villains. Shreck was originally supposed to be Harvey Dent who would've been transformed into Two-Face at the end. I don't know why they didn't go with that but I think they may have had to pay Billy Dee Williams some money (he played Dent in the first film for folks who don't remember) for not using him again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-46415917736141632422012-11-08T14:47:46.839-05:002012-11-08T14:47:46.839-05:00BIG MO -
Yeah, the story is kinda thin, though I...BIG MO - <br /><br />Yeah, the story is kinda thin, though I think you can say the same for all of the Burton and Schumacher films. I wouldn't call the Penguin's fall from grace unbelievable, just very convenient, like the filmmakers had to rush to the ending and that was the best idea they could think of. At least during the making of the first film, there was a WGA strike, which is why Vicky Vale shows up in the Batcave - they just needed to get to the ending by any means possible.<br /><br />I know Batman killing people is a big problem for people. I sympathize. The killing of the Circus Gang bomber is pretty egregious in that respect.<br /><br />No worries about groaning and moaning - I'm the same way in the <i>Star Trek</i> comments. :-)<br /><br />Elfman's score isn't as good as his score for the first film (which was a landmark score for his career) - it's a little more out there given the nature of the film.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-83003240689236790532012-11-08T14:43:22.127-05:002012-11-08T14:43:22.127-05:00Of the two Burton Batmans, I think Batman Returns ...Of the two Burton Batmans, I think Batman Returns is the film I enjoy more and a lot of it is due to Walken's character. Shreck didn't need a vat of chemicals or freak explosion to initiate his descent into villainy, he's already rotten to the core by the time the film begins. <br /><br />A lot of superhero films have ordinary humans who are villains (ordinary in the sense they don't have a masked persona or countless minions at their disposal), but they are never quite so front and center in the action of the film as Walken is. <br /><br />Also, considering the film goes more into depth to explain the troubled psyche of the Penguin and Catwoman's character is simply in it for the revenge, then Shreck comes off as more of a villain than the two masked baddies. I don't know if that's enough to make it a first-rate film, but it does help make it a unique and rather interesting comic book movie. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-6383951389822147352012-11-08T13:50:27.533-05:002012-11-08T13:50:27.533-05:00As an oddball Tim Burton film, Batman Returns is f...As an oddball Tim Burton film, <i>Batman Returns</i> is fine. But I am a huge Batman nut -- comics, animated movies and TV shows, and Nolan's movies -- and I dislike this film. I've disliked it since I first saw it in the theaters in 1992 <i>before</i> I became a Batman nut. I felt let down after leaving the theater, because Burton's first film was awesome. <br /><br />I don't hate it, but just don't care for it much. You've touched on one of my big reasons: the greater focus on Penguin and Catwoman than Batman, so much so that I call it "The Adventures of the Sultry Cat and the Repulsive Bird, featuring Batman." <br /><br />I think the story is thin -- more like a series of bare-bones vignettes a la "prequel" George Lucas than a well-plotted and -paced story. The dialogue at times sounds like a rough draft that was waiting for the details to be filled in. Max Schrek is too cartoonish, Catwoman's "birth" is silly, and Batman/Bruce Wayne is a flat prop. The flirtation between Catwoman/Selina and Batman/Bruce didn't work for me. <br /><br />Penguin's "fall from grace" when Batman plays the recording at Cobblepot's speech was unbelievable, and dashed what little suspension of disbelief I had left -- and made me laugh at the whole rocket-bearing "penguin army".<br /><br />Plus, the title still doesn't make sense. "Batman Returns" -- from what and where? Did he disappear at the end of Burton's film? The ending of that movie says otherwise. Unless it's to mean "Batman returns to the theaters."<br /> <br />Those are all my general criticisms of the film as a movie. But I have a specific nerdish fanboy criticism -- one that general audiences not wedded to the whole Batman mythos would care about. <br /><br />The real kicker for me is that Burton's Batman kills. I didn't think this way in 1989 and 1992, but I definitely do now. In the 1989 film, the hero destroys Joker’s chemical factory with a remotely detonated bomb, which kills scores of Joker’s stooges. They never have a chance to even think about escaping. Batman also makes one of Joker’s goons fall to his death from the top of Gotham Cathedral. In <i>Batman Returns</i>, the hero is assaulted by a bomb-wielding member of the Circus Gang. Batman turns tables on the thug, fixes the bomb to him, grins wickedly and flips him down a shaft to his explosive doom. The scenes are completely out of character for the Dark Knight. <br /><br />Of course, take my criticisms for what they are: the groaning and moaning of a hardcore Batman fan. Perhaps I've been spoiled by Nolan's incredible films, the animate shows, the DC animated movies and the comics. <br /><br />As I said earlier, as a Tim Burton film, it's fine and often fun, with decent music (not as great as the first) and interesting performances and scenery. As a Batman film... it has its moments, but not enough for me. Certainly better than the disappointing <i>Batman Forever</i> and the wretched <i>Batman and Rubber Nipples</i>, but weaker than Burton's earlier film. BIG MOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10556263286375426353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-12169826097791883682012-11-08T13:47:10.005-05:002012-11-08T13:47:10.005-05:00Jed -
Ha! I never grew up on the comics but I di...Jed - <br /><br />Ha! I never grew up on the comics but I did, in fact, grow up on the 60s series because it aired every day on the Family Channel, and like kids 25 years earlier, I took it completely seriously, only enjoying the camp elements later.<br /><br />I do agree Michael Keaton is underrated as an actor. The highlight of the Will Ferrell film <i>The Other Guys</i> was seeing Keaton in the film as the police chief. He was also great in this Ron Howard movie from the 90s called <i>The Paper</i>.<br /><br />This may border on sacrilege but I don't think Schwazenegger was that bad (in the context of that movie!). Campy and over the top? Absolutely, but he's also clearly having a blast - I only wish he had a director like Nolan working with him instead of Schumacher.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com