tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post4840347788949392498..comments2024-03-05T21:05:36.848-05:00Comments on CommentaramaFilms: Politics of Trek: “Space Seed”AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-68514967239806526812012-09-19T22:35:13.670-04:002012-09-19T22:35:13.670-04:00Voz, I'm glad to hear it! This series has ver...Voz, I'm glad to hear it! This series has very unfairly been dismissed as "Wagon Train in Space" when it's really so much more. The writing is very, very strong, especially when you know what to look for. I absolutely recommend that everyone re-watch the entire series. It's well worth the time!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-62091362285923666032012-09-19T22:32:56.301-04:002012-09-19T22:32:56.301-04:00This series on the Politics of Trek inspired me to...This series on the Politics of Trek inspired me to watch all the episodes in order...I'd never seen all the episodes so I'm seeing most of them for the first time and am amazed at how good they are/were. I am currently in the middle of season 2.Voznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-16622112564344081572012-09-19T10:08:08.802-04:002012-09-19T10:08:08.802-04:00USS Ben
From what I have red using embryonic stem...USS Ben<br /><br />From what I have red using embryonic stem cells to create body parts is problematic because they cause cancer growths.<br /><br />As I understand it the reason we age is the the growth hormones that replenish cells are turned off. If they were not we could keep our bodies young but the chance of cells becoming cancerous would increase greatly. Thus aging is a defence against cancer.<br /><br />For this reason the scientists have been using adult stem cells to perform this research because they are more in line with the body.<br /><br />I am not sure but this leads me to think that the cells that create an organ might be different than the cells that create a clone.<br /><br />I know that there is a lot of talk about stem cell research issues but that is mostly political. It could be the scientific articles I read discussing this were political as well but it was in Scientific American and Discover magazine so if anything I'd think political articles there would skew left not right.Individualisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005025873042230314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-86360227157827549292012-09-19T03:09:20.015-04:002012-09-19T03:09:20.015-04:00Eugenics in these episodes are taken from the aspe...Eugenics in these episodes are taken from the aspect of the state controlling the genome through collectivist power.<br /><br />I find the story of Gattaca to be eaully compelling. What happens when the option is available but left up to individual choice.<br /><br />At first the science may be dangerous and distrubing but as it becomes well understood and the major drawbacks worked out it will become mainstream. When a parent has the choice of making a child that is "still you but the best of you" that is when the true nature of the genie comes out of the bottle.<br /><br />The interesting point that Gattaca makes is that superior genetic output is not the only factor to success. Drive and determination can cause an individual to excel. And in the end this is what is lost when one relies only on a DNA sequence to determine success.<br /><br />Seems to me there are common themes to this episode but from another view of the issue.Individualisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005025873042230314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-67904221512709985582012-09-19T01:30:45.151-04:002012-09-19T01:30:45.151-04:00That makes sense. Although I'm sure a liberal ...That makes sense. Although I'm sure a liberal majority court could find a way around it somehow. Depends on how far out there they are I guess.<br /><br />I get the sense that most of those on the left would oppose cloning an actual person, at least presently. In a few decades who knows?<br /><br />But if they could grow bady parts and organs then that wouldn't be a problem, other than possible unforeseen problems that is.<br /><br />But it would only affect individuals if something went wrong...unless...we advance enough to do brains and find a way to transfer information from one brain to another, like The Man With Two Brains.<br /><br />Hey! It could happen.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-74095329104339009932012-09-18T23:06:01.151-04:002012-09-18T23:06:01.151-04:00Ben, Evolution. LOL!
On your eugenics question, I...Ben, Evolution. LOL!<br /><br />On your eugenics question, I think the answer is that it depends on what they do. If you make another human and then try to kill it to get the organs, the court would rule that they are human and would not allow it. But if you only create separate parts, then I think the court will decide that it's not a life and will allow it -- especially if it's created from your own cells.<br />AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-59974524552264500612012-09-18T22:26:44.559-04:002012-09-18T22:26:44.559-04:00"The constitution is a large contract and how..."The constitution is a large contract and how can a contract change on it's own over time?"<br /><br />Evolution? (Ducks). :^)USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-21487283373782289102012-09-18T22:25:21.015-04:002012-09-18T22:25:21.015-04:00Getting back to eugenics, Andrew, would you say th...Getting back to eugenics, Andrew, would you say that Roe V Wade provides the legal framework to make cloning legal?<br /><br />I can see the argument now: "It's my genes, I have a right to do with them as I please, and if I want to grow a clone for body parts or organs it's my right. It's in the Constitution, just like abortion for convenience. It's legal to abort my zygote so why cant I farm my own cells."<br /><br />Whatever arguments are used, I would bet that a liberal SCOTUS would back it up in the name of "choice."<br /><br />However, I would think that most folks would consider that morally disgusting since a clone would have it's own mind and, in all respects be a different person than it's "owner."<br /><br />Of course, most folks are morally disgusted with abortion for convenience, sex selection of babies, etc., too but that's still happening, so I predict it's possible, perhaps even probable that cloning and genetic modifications will become legal in the near future.<br /><br />I would like to think our present SCOTUS would shoot it down but after Obamascare I'm not so sure they would.<br /><br />Scary. It goes without saying a civilized society should not go down that road.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-57141352738580169982012-09-18T22:20:29.660-04:002012-09-18T22:20:29.660-04:00Ben, I agree. His actions have very much been con...Ben, I agree. His actions have very much been consistent with his words, and that's not good. Also, moral relativism has become a liberal rallying cry for "all values are equal except the values we don't like," which becomes an attack on conservative values.<br /><br />I agree too that they don't respect the Constitution. The whole "living document" garbage proves that. The constitution is a large contract and how can a contract change on it's own over time?<br />AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-64132570000001373512012-09-18T21:22:37.312-04:002012-09-18T21:22:37.312-04:00Andrew, implied, yes, but his actions are in line ...Andrew, implied, yes, but his actions are in line with his implicite words.<br /><br />Thing is, the problem is Obama and his minions (I don't include every leftist but the movers and shakers) don't think about our Constitution.<br /><br />One can't possibly think properly in that kind of mindset but every word is apriori distorted and perverted when one's foundation is absolute relativism (and moral relativism).<br /><br />That foundation in three words is "might makes right" or in one word: Force.<br /><br />What left has done to language is reprehensible. They destroy meaning in the name of political expediency.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-74997297745393974152012-09-18T20:50:09.604-04:002012-09-18T20:50:09.604-04:00Ben, I don't think he's actually thinking ...Ben, I don't think he's actually thinking about our Constitution or our Founders when he said that. I think he's talking about people who fight in the name of ideology or theology.<br /><br />BUT..., as you note, his statement does implicate that through the suggestion that there is no truth and the suggestion that only moral relativism is right.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-56522689866569036012012-09-18T20:45:41.098-04:002012-09-18T20:45:41.098-04:00Thanks Ben! It's all a matter of time Ben! W...Thanks Ben! It's all a matter of time Ben! When I originally started, I thought I could write one or two of these per day, but they end up taking several days each actually. Arg.<br /><br />Great point on the perversion of order. Order at the point of the gun to impose the will of a tyrannical government is not order, it is control. Order is when the people decide the rules they wish to live by and then enforce them justly.<br /><br />On Obama's quote, I think he's largely right EXCEPT for the "absolute truth" part. I understand what he's trying to say. He's trying to say people who believe ideology is truth and try to force their ideology on others are evil. But that's not "absolute truth" and mixing that in was an ideological point which ruined his whole statement. Like it or not, there is truth in the universe and that truth must underlie order or it's a false order... as you say, our rights and liberties derive from absolute truth or they mean nothing.<br /><br />Well said Ben!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-67933058492158761502012-09-18T20:37:16.857-04:002012-09-18T20:37:16.857-04:00IOW's, Obama is calling the freest form of gov...IOW's, Obama is calling the freest form of government on earth, ever, a tyranny, and he calls our Founding Fathers tyrants. <br /><br />He's saying that only a relative, state-given rights and state-given liberty, based on relatvism (which means whatever who is in power wants it to mean) is ideal.<br /><br />He literally doesn't see that his way is the way of all tyrants and fascists.<br />Or that he is calling good, evil and evil, good.<br /><br />Good God! We hafta get rid of this malignant narcissist with delusions of grandeur!<br /><br />As Reagan said, we are only one generation from tyranny. USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-19221459273058547502012-09-18T20:29:55.400-04:002012-09-18T20:29:55.400-04:00Outstanding post, Andrew!
I was wondering when yo...Outstanding post, Andrew!<br /><br />I was wondering when you would get to this episode. :^)<br /><br />"To him, the lack of freedom is the defining criteria of right and wrong, and it cannot be legitimately traded for order."<br /><br />I would only add: a perversion of order. Or, "ordered" chaos.<br />This is what leftism does. It perverts what is good and denies it.<br /><br />For example, since we are talking about freedom and how eugenics will necessarily take that away in some form, there's this chilling quote from Obama:<br /><br />"Implicit... in the very idea of ordered liberty was a rejection of absolute truth, the infallibility of any idea or ideology or theology or 'ism,' any tyrannical consistency that might lock future generations into a single, unalterable course, or drive both majorities and minorities into the cruelties of the Inquisition, the pogrom, the gulag, or the jihad." <br /><br />Kind of makes me wanna puke. Oh yeah, let's get rid of the idea of absolute truth and replace it with absolute relativism and invert everything our Founding Father's fought for and said.<br /><br />That worked so well for Hitler, Stalin, Mao, or any of the hundreds of other minor dictators and tyrants in our recent history.<br />And the millions of people they slaughtered in the name of "progress."<br /><br />Our rights and liberty are...and must be from absolute Truth or they don't mean squat. <br />Anything else is destined to fail and the side effects are anything but good.<br /><br />USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-8146835437480108812012-09-18T19:36:39.737-04:002012-09-18T19:36:39.737-04:00You are such a cynic! I'm sure if we work har...You are such a cynic! I'm sure if we work hard enough at it, we can get everyone above average. ;)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-64643404077913050922012-09-18T19:34:28.825-04:002012-09-18T19:34:28.825-04:00Doesn't matter, eugenics or not, 1/2 the popul...Doesn't matter, eugenics or not, 1/2 the population will always be below average (except Lake Wobegonne of course). So, when do you stop?Koshcatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-54802790833264051382012-09-18T19:07:57.063-04:002012-09-18T19:07:57.063-04:00Max, That's true. But maybe Khan assumes his ...Max, That's true. But maybe Khan assumes his genes will carry through no matter who he does the nasty with? I'm not sure, but you are correct that it does seem odd if you think about it.<br /><br />Khan is very much a charismatic dictator figure and he's very well drawn. I love the anger just lingering under the surface at all times and the expectation that everyone will bend to his will. Very well done!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-86786490962432642482012-09-18T19:00:43.778-04:002012-09-18T19:00:43.778-04:00Andrew, I figure if you buy into the whole master ...Andrew, I figure if you buy into the whole master race idea, the ordinary people would be below you. Reproducing with them, forget it. <br /><br />It doesn't bother me either, I was looking at it logically. <br /><br />A friend had a book on the subject of "Self Power", it was about the power of dictators. Mainly how they manipulated others, after I read the book(back in the eighties) the Kahn character looked like it came from that book. <br />That's all I remember about the book, it would be fun to read it today. I have no idea of the title or author. <br />Commander Maxhttp://www.the-grey-ghost.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-9030738075944808222012-09-18T18:43:35.488-04:002012-09-18T18:43:35.488-04:00Koshcat, That's an interesting idea and one th...Koshcat, That's an interesting idea and one that sounds like it might be correct. I know that an overactive immune system can cause diseases later on in life, so maybe that is what is going on genetically?<br /><br />The idea of the trade off actually fascinates me because it suggests that whatever we do ultimately achieve in terms of genetic manipulation could well backfire quite severely.<br />AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-51786698165731951692012-09-18T18:32:57.519-04:002012-09-18T18:32:57.519-04:00It has been awhile since I watched that episode an...It has been awhile since I watched that episode and you have prompted me to re-check it out.<br /><br />Evolution or natural selection is fascinating. It is always ongoing all around us and in us. The primary impetus is to survive. This drive generally leads to trade offs many that may not be overtly obvious. An alteration in a gene that improves the immune system as a child might later lead to leukemia as an older adult. But, in reality, your body the organism doesn't care if it gets leukemia at 60. It has made it to and through the age of ability to produce offspring. This is the theory behind why most cancers significantly rise as we age, especially past age 60.Koshcatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-21377898058731482572012-09-18T18:19:53.895-04:002012-09-18T18:19:53.895-04:00PikeBishop, I almost mentioned that. The German s...PikeBishop, I almost mentioned that. The German sterilization laws were copies of the American sterilization laws. Nice, huh? That's not something you get in most American History classes.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-7669781160747885242012-09-18T18:18:20.509-04:002012-09-18T18:18:20.509-04:00Thanks Max! I'm actually thinking of multiple...Thanks Max! I'm actually thinking of multiple books now, rather than waiting to get them all done, we'll do a series.<br /><br />I thought Montalban was excellent. He was easily one of their better guest stars and he gave the character real life. It's hard not to believe that Khan exists.<br /><br />It didn't bother me that Khan fell for McGivers because I think it shows that he takes the things he wants and he wanted her. Plus, I get the sense he was using her at points. Plus, she's a groupie basically and he probably liked that she worshiped him.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-27932135387106963502012-09-18T18:09:32.588-04:002012-09-18T18:09:32.588-04:00@ Ellen: Believe it. About twenty years ago I saw ...@ Ellen: Believe it. About twenty years ago I saw a documentary series, "The Occult History of the Third Reich" and was shocked when I heard that the Nazis got a lot of their foundations for the Final Solution from the US. Over 30 states had mandatory sterilization laws on the books before Hitler came to power.PikeBishophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05761380937971970762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-71190495753783385912012-09-18T17:45:10.432-04:002012-09-18T17:45:10.432-04:00Very good take Andrew, one more step toward the bo...Very good take Andrew, one more step toward the book(Conservatism of Star Trek). <br /><br />Margaret Sanger there is a true loon, publicly stating she wanted to eliminate the black race. <br />Her legacy is alive and doing the job. I hope she is enjoying her seat in Hell. <br /><br />It occurred to me that one thing doesn't make sense(other than Chekhov). Kahn talks up how superior he is(more of less). But he takes up with a native girl, which would go against the superior attitude. Perhaps it was available opportunities, or he doesn't like superior women(from experience). <br /><br />I always thought Montalban did a really good job as Kahn(in Space Seed). He came across as an arrogant dictator with power over millions. Perhaps it has something to do with his Latin blood, LOL. Commander Maxhttp://www.the-grey-ghost.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-41819557386943318592012-09-18T17:09:58.944-04:002012-09-18T17:09:58.944-04:00Life is about tradeoffs. I can't imagine that...Life is about tradeoffs. I can't imagine that the genetic code would be any different. Which is not to say people couldn't still try to get blue eyes or a third buttocks, but you may have to give something up to get those luxuries. ;)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.com