tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post4325366899945603650..comments2024-03-05T21:05:36.848-05:00Comments on CommentaramaFilms: Film Friday: Patriotic FilmsAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-91823645716141641562009-07-04T16:58:15.597-04:002009-07-04T16:58:15.597-04:00Andrew: Since your final list includes TV miniser...Andrew: Since your final list includes TV miniseries, I think your choice of <i>Gettysburg</i> at top spot is a very good one. As for civilian movies, I put <i>Mr. Smith Goes to Washington</i> in the top spot. And for historical movies which depict the growing independence and uniqueness of the American spirit, I'll go with <i>How The West Was Won</i>.<br><br>I have watched <i>Independence Day</i> more times than I care to admit, and I really enjoy the movie. I fault it only for the President's big speech before the battle in which he tosses the Fourth of July into the "we're all human beings in this together" pot, as if most of the world would instantly discover that war is about more than staying alive and grabbing somebody else's land. The Allied victory over the Nazis didn't teach the Soviets a thing about freedom, and that's why I think the speech was a flop. Independence Day is uniquely American, and always will be. So to keep enjoying the movie, I go into the kitchen to get something to eat while the President makes his "one world" speech. I also didn't much care for the President replacing the words of Thomas Jefferson with those of a Welsh poet, however good the poem is. End of rant.<br><br>I also agree with you wholeheartedly on the bad choices you struck from the list.LawHawkRFDhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-48934804723773368742009-07-04T17:20:02.653-04:002009-07-04T17:20:02.653-04:00Lawhawk, I know that a lot of people did not like ...Lawhawk, I know that a lot of people did not like his speech. I don't see it as detracting from the overall pro-American flavor of the film.<br><br>I have to wonder about the initial list. Like I said, I suspect that many people just voted based on movie name rather than movie content.<br><br>The one that I like the least on the list, though I understand its appeal, is Yankee Doodle. I find it too simplistic and rather dull, but that's just a matter of taste.<br><br>What amazed me most though, was how hard it was to find a good movie about the American revolution. You would think Hollywood would be stuffed to the gills with those, but they are truly rare. Can you say "opportunity" for an interested screen writer?AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-39042404061193585462009-07-04T18:08:46.910-04:002009-07-04T18:08:46.910-04:00Andrew: I have enjoyed Yankee Doodle Dandy many t...Andrew: I have enjoyed <i>Yankee Doodle Dandy</i> many times. It's simple, but I wouldn't actually say simplistic. There's an interesting side story. At the end of the movie, Cagney (as George M. Cohan)is greeted in the White House by President Roosevelt and congratulated for his work and his patriotism. George M. Cohan absolutely despised FDR, considered him to be a near-communist, and reluctantly received the honor solely because of his patriotism and honor for the office, if not for the man.<br><br><i>Born on the Fourth of July</i> is an absolute abomination. Kovic was a coward who got shot in the arse running from the enemy. He wasn't born on the Fourth of July. And he is personally loathsome (I've gotten into it with him a couple of times at SF Board of Supervisors meetings). Tom Cruise was perfect for the part--he's crazy too. It is one of the most un-American movies it has ever been my displeasure to see. I couldn't be happier that you lined it out. The same people who would think that the movie was patriotic just from the title are the kind who chose <i>Born in the USA</i> as a theme song for the Republicans. It should have been the theme song for the movie, since both are completely misleading.LawHawkRFDhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-12332974435941529952009-07-04T20:28:47.516-04:002009-07-04T20:28:47.516-04:00I'm not sure this movie meets all your criteri...I'm not sure this movie meets all your criteria, but I really like "The Crossing". Jeff Daniels gives a fine performance as George Washington leading a ragtag bunch of farmers, hunters and fishermen in a surprise attack across the ice-choked Delaware River against a party of professional soldiers, the Hessians. <br><br>Based on real events in American history, this battle in the Revolution was a bold move and took an enormous amount of courage on the part of the men involved. Not just an action flick parading as a costume drama, the film highlights the morale challenges Washington had to overcome (his and his men's); the fact that even though he was the General on the front lines, he still had to deal with politicians; and the strategy of planning the attack.<br><br>The film gives life to those few dull paragraphs devoted to the battle in most school textbooks.USArtguyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06062334713741697082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-55558740135466770092009-07-04T21:28:35.082-04:002009-07-04T21:28:35.082-04:00USArtguy,That is one of the few revolution-related...USArtguy,<br><br>That is one of the few revolution-related movies/tv shows that I mention in the first part of the article (though I didn't mention this one). It's shocking to me that there aren't more. Seriously. You would think that stories about our founding would be prime turf for Hollywood, but apparently not.<br><br>In an interesting bit of trivia about the crossing, one of the six Americans wounded in the battle was Lieutenant James Monroe, the future Fifth President of the United States -- famous for the Monroe Doctrine.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-45721253550335380032009-07-04T22:44:40.700-04:002009-07-04T22:44:40.700-04:00Here are the two I would nominate: The Man Who Sho...Here are the two I would nominate: The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance and The Alamo. Really, any classic cowboy movie about true grit, doing what's right (whether as a cowboy or a lawyer, like in Liberty Valance) and loyalty. And what better exemplifies the American media than the line the reporter speaks in Liberty Valance - "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." But really, I love the struggle in Liberty Valance between the Stewart character growing from having a lawbook in one hand to realizing that you need a gun in the other. I include The Alamo because it is very epic, very historic, and my mother requested I put it on. :)JGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03116405895683599572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-62281441180427822282009-07-04T22:51:19.094-04:002009-07-04T22:51:19.094-04:00Excellent list, Andrew!Happy Independence Day ever...Excellent list, Andrew!<br>Happy Independence Day everyone!<br><br>I would only add We Were Soldiers to the list, which, although not explicitely patriotic like Gettysburg or Independence Day it was implicitely so, and the best Vietnam War flick I ever saw. <br><br>I definitely did feel patriotic after watching it, and like Sargeant York all the main characters are likeable and good. <br>But unlike Sargeant York, it is more focused on the team effort involved (where even the war correspondent ended up shooting during the battle).<br>It also clearly embodied the American spirit, and the courage, brotherhood and honor that is so common in our military.<br><br>I would love to see more Revolutionary War movies done right.<br>I suspect that most Americans today have no idea how outgunned, outmanned and out supplied we were during that war, nor how close we came to losing it, let alone the sacrifices of blood, fortitude and treasure it took to win it.<br><br>If any war looked utterly futile on paper that was the one, and it's no wonder George Washington and our other Founding Fathers gave credit to Divine Providence as the miracle it took to finally overcome the massively overwhelming British juggernaut on land and sea.USS Ben USN (Ret)http://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-32494283158974884412009-07-04T23:04:02.102-04:002009-07-04T23:04:02.102-04:00JG, Good call on both Liberty Valance and The Alam...JG, Good call on both <i>Liberty Valance</i> and <i>The Alamo</i>!<br><br>I very much wanted to put both on my list, but I ultimately chose <i>How The West Was Won</i> over <i>The Alamo</i> because it was just a little broader. Also, because Jimmy Stewart is already on the list twice -- in <i>How The West Was Won</i> and in <i>Mr. Smith Goes To Washington</i>, I felt that I should avoid giving him a third movie.<br><br>That said, either of those movies could be added to the list without any problems at all.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-55200720208511607202009-07-04T23:15:11.214-04:002009-07-04T23:15:11.214-04:00USS Ben, thanks! And happy Independence Day to you...USS Ben, thanks! And happy Independence Day to you too!<br><br>You are absolutely right about the revolution. It was truly an amazing accomplishment, and it was far from a settled result. There are many moments where it looked like the whole thing would end in disaster.<br><br>I too would like to see more movies about the revolution. I thought the John Adams mini-series was excellent and I would like to see other perspectives.<br><br>P.S. I did consider <i>They Were Soldiers</i>, which I agree is a great Vietnam movie. I left it off primarily because the list already included several war movies. I also considered <i>Band of Brothers</i>, but I chose to stay with <i>The Longest Day</i> because I felt it was more openly patriotic.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-5145622127924785932009-07-04T23:52:34.392-04:002009-07-04T23:52:34.392-04:00USArtguy: I didn't realize that we were going...USArtguy: I didn't realize that we were going to go back to the Revolution, or I would have included <i>The Crossing</i> in my top five. Good call.<br><br>USSBen: I think you've been reading my comments long enough to know that I was a radical in my college days, and very active in the anti-Vietnam War movement (but not the anti-America movement). So your choice of <i>We Were Soldiers</i> is a particularly good one. It was truly a great movie, and both patriotic and heroic. I've watched it at least three times, and come away with a new lesson and new pride in America each time.LawHawkRFDhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-56897380293425030602009-07-05T00:16:04.973-04:002009-07-05T00:16:04.973-04:00Happy 4th all! All great picks and I agree with US...Happy 4th all! All great picks and I agree with USArtguy, “The Crossing” and it’s depiction of the Battle of Trenton exceptional. I to could not come up with any great movies of the American Revolution so I went for American ideals, my picks are: Jerimiah Johnson, for American spirit. Saving Private Ryan, American soldiers dedication and independent initiative. True Grit, American character. Little Boy and Fat Man, as an example of American ingenuity.StanHhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07395708786509590321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-81573756496865398822009-07-05T01:42:54.248-04:002009-07-05T01:42:54.248-04:00Andrew: Jimmy Stewart is, to me, quite an American...Andrew: Jimmy Stewart is, to me, quite an American icon, not only in the characters he played, but also for his service in WWII. <br><br>I should also add, however, that sorely missing from this or any other list are the homefront movies of WWII. <i>Since You Went Away,</i> for example. That's a side of the American experience that always seems to be overlooked, maybe because they are too "chick flick".JGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03116405895683599572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-19891843623891368982009-07-05T09:28:24.118-04:002009-07-05T09:28:24.118-04:00First, and most important, thanks for the list, An...First, and most important, thanks for the list, Andrew.<br><br>As to the Forrest Gump nomination by Blockbuster viewers-- <br><br>I tried to figure out the popularity of that movie for a long time. It really made no sense until I recognized the Hollyweird agenda. That movie basically told Americans that they were idiots and laughed in their faces. <br><br>I guess most people like that. Not me.CrisDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-24702145896786795142009-07-05T09:56:10.211-04:002009-07-05T09:56:10.211-04:00CrisD - I am right there with you on "Forrest...CrisD - I am right there with you on "Forrest Gump". I just didn't get it.<br><br>Law - It's "The Alamo" for me because...well...that's the only Revolution that we ever really learned about in Texas. Well, the only one of any real importance anyway! ;-)<br><br>Yesterday I watched "Yankee Doodle Dandy" which I always love to watch and one I have never seen before from 1959 "The Devil's Disciple" with Burt Lancaster and Kirk Douglas (written by George Bernard <br>Shaw) If you haven't seen that one, it was great. Burt and Kirk, well you just have to see it.<br><br>Well, I am off to a Yankees game at the new stadium! Have a beautiful 5th of July, everybody!!BevfromNYChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14953050916932306270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-50647377049379353082009-07-05T11:14:23.462-04:002009-07-05T11:14:23.462-04:00JG, I have to admit that I haven't seen Since ...JG, I have to admit that I haven't seen <i>Since You Went Away</i>, though I will check it out now. Thanks!<br><br>CrisD, I thought Forrest Gump was on ok movie, but I certainly did not understand the huge appeal it had. I suspect it had more to do with marketing than quality. It may have gotten more acclaim than it deserved because of the gickmicky aspect of inserting Hanks into the footage we already know. But I think you're right that the movie is rather insulting to everyday Americans.<br><br>Bev, you Texans! LOL! Believe it or not, it took me years to warm to Burt Lancaster. He's got a hard edge to him that always turned me off somehow. But the more I saw -- particularly <i>Elmer Gantry</i>, the more impressed I became. Kirk Douglas I've always liked.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-30176168342307529582009-07-05T12:17:26.622-04:002009-07-05T12:17:26.622-04:00StanH,I like the movies you've mention, with t...StanH,<br><br>I like the movies you've mention, with the exception of Saving Private Ryan. I have real problems with the message in that one. I think there is too much of a "why are we fighting" undercurrent in that one. Indeed, it strikes me as very similar to Platoon, only less in your face about the message. And I don't think that message is appropriate in a WWII film.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-55023111274935765632009-07-05T12:51:55.461-04:002009-07-05T12:51:55.461-04:00Hi Andrew. I guess what gets me is the final scene...Hi Andrew. I guess what gets me is the final scene where Ryan is standing in front of Capt. Miller’s headstone and snaps a salute, and the scene fades to the American flag popping in the wind, I always well up. Your point is taken however with some of the political overtones.StanHhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07395708786509590321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-78892642049078052232009-07-05T13:27:04.933-04:002009-07-05T13:27:04.933-04:00Stan,Don't get me wrong, there is no doubt tha...Stan,<br><br>Don't get me wrong, there is no doubt that it is an emotional movie, and a movie that I generally enjoy. But, as I said, there is an undercurrent that I really don't like.<br><br>It's the same thing with <i>Platoon</i>. I really enjoy <i>Platoon</i> and I respect it as a film, but I don't like the message.<br><br>But even <i>Platoon</i> I can understand a litle better because Vietnam was such a controversial war and much of what Stone is expression was what many on the left believed. Also, he is up front about his contentions, so you know where he's coming from. I don't think Speilberg was being as honest in <i>Ryan</i>, where most of the negative messages are much more subtle or are quickly followed up with a "patriotic moment."<br><br>Also, I've never seen those sentiments attributed to anyone in WWII, and I don't think they are accurate or fair to what these people did.<br><br>I think a much more fair portrayal can be had in <i>Band of Brothers</i>.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-17578725960829743962009-07-05T14:11:19.548-04:002009-07-05T14:11:19.548-04:00Bev: I loved the original The Alamo too. It belo...Bev: I loved the original <i>The Alamo</i> too. It belongs on the short list. But you mentioned two stars that triggered me to offer another entry: The original <i>Seven Days in May</i> with Kirk Douglas and Burt Lancaster. It was made at a time where there was genuine concern over the General Walker episode and a possible anti-democratic takeover of the US government. The true American spirit of the Constitution comes in the form of a hard-bitten colonel (Douglas), and the somewhat weak but duly-elected President (Frederic March) who discover and foil a plot to overthrow the government during a military coup planned by a general (Lancaster). The Constitution prevails.<br><br>Andrew: My son (then fourteen years old) insisted that I take him to see <i>Platoon</i>. At the end of the movie, with the Charlie Sheen voiceover, he began to laugh and I began to boo. I hated the negative portrayal of the American soldiers, and he saw through the political propaganda, and we both expressed our contempt for the movie spontaneously and at exactly the same time. I had been an anti-Vietnam War activist who blamed the administration, not the soldiers, and even my fourteen-year old had already developed a fine nose for bulls--t.LawHawkRFDhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-56624384702255748172009-07-06T10:02:58.641-04:002009-07-06T10:02:58.641-04:00I've always thought that Top Gun and Rocky IV ...I've always thought that Top Gun and Rocky IV are the greatest of the "cold war classics". Also, the sound tracks are awesome.freedom21noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-47452698938268292372009-07-06T12:54:34.818-04:002009-07-06T12:54:34.818-04:00Freedom21, those are certainly good movies that co...Freedom21, those are certainly good movies that could be on the list. In the end though, I chose Independence Day because of its broader themes and National Treasure because of its reverence for our history. But either could have made the list.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.com