tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post2698626821210228175..comments2024-03-05T21:05:36.848-05:00Comments on CommentaramaFilms: Film Friday: Red Dawn (1984) v. Red Dawn (2012)AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-46036381036672776042014-01-08T15:56:49.457-05:002014-01-08T15:56:49.457-05:00KRS, That is true about the original Red Dawn. Th...KRS, That is true about the original <i>Red Dawn</i>. This was the first really pro-America war film since the early 1960s probably. It was proudly patriotic and I remember people responding to it accordingly. It was the kind of film that made you sick and angry when it started, but had you fist pumping by the end because it stood up for us... the good guys. :D<br /><br />The paratroopers were Cubans, but I understand they also brought in Nicaraguan troops rather than Mexican. And you're right, the Russians came in later specifically to fight the Wolverines.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-37354427025819774042014-01-08T15:04:33.241-05:002014-01-08T15:04:33.241-05:00I'm getting to this discussion way late, put I...I'm getting to this discussion way late, put I thought I'd leave a few opinion droppings for posterity:<br /><br />I was in my 20's when the first Red Dawn came out. I'm the son of a WWII vet, but I grew up with Vietnam and the toxic aftermath in the cinema. Red Dawn was the first blazingly and unabashedly patriotic contemporary war movie that I ever seen - in my life!<br /><br />This was a big, BIG deal because all of our contemporary war movies were Oliver Stonesque orgasms of cynicism or lone wolf heros damaged by their wartime experiences in Vietnam. <br /><br />Unlike those movies, Red Dawn was taken as "Americans good, other guys bad, so kick their butts WWII style - we're JUSTIFIED!" I saw it several times in the theater and the audience stood up and cheered each time.<br /><br />Red Dawn, intentionally or not, was relief from the endless march of Hollywood cynicism and national self-loathing of the Woodstock baby boomers (my older brothers). It was an emotional release and the few faults it had were ignored by the audience for that reason. <br /><br />One point of order - the paratroopers in the original were Cuban with Mexican allies and they were led by a Cuban Colonel who was conflicted about his duty. The Soviets brought in a Soviet officer (player by William Smith - the baddest of all bad- a## character actors in cinema history), to escalate the fight against the Wolverines. So the deal with the Norks doing the dirty work is not out of line with the original, it's just not believable in today's context.<br /><br />Bottom line is that I believe nothing would have saved this sequel because the social circumstances of the nation are not compatible to the concept.KRSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-21598675942350724972014-01-06T09:27:38.182-05:002014-01-06T09:27:38.182-05:00Speaking of EMPs. LIttle known fact that an EMP wa...Speaking of EMPs. LIttle known fact that an EMP was part of the backstory for the "peaceful" invasion of the Soviets in the ABC 1987 minseries "Amerika." It was never fully developed but there are hints strewn throughout as a lot of technical things didn't work anymore. If I recall San Neil and the Soviet officers use military field phones to communicate.PikeBishophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05761380937971970762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-40111492856182012942014-01-06T00:08:07.563-05:002014-01-06T00:08:07.563-05:00El Gordo, Thanks! I think it would have made for ...El Gordo, Thanks! I think it would have made for a much more intriguing start as it would have felt more modern and more believable and given people the same "this could really happen" feeling the original had... something the new film just doesn't do.<br /><br />It is a bit like BSG, isn't it? The truth is that I've been reading military articles worried about this for years ever since they found Chinese chips in things that should have been made in the US. They actually blame those chips for a handful of systems failures and some jet crashes. So the issue is right there. And yeah, that would have been scary and effective. Imagine a few scenes or even flashbacks or just a soldier explaining, "Our system just shutdown. There was nothing could do because our own computer stopped."AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-91487918078559405652014-01-05T08:48:33.394-05:002014-01-05T08:48:33.394-05:00"T-Rav, You mean Chris Helmsworth doesn't...<i>"T-Rav, You mean Chris Helmsworth doesn't do it for you?"</i><br /><br />By the way, has anyone seen the trailer for the new Hercules movie? It is the most derivative thing ever. Every shot reminds you of a movie you have already seen. And while Hemsworth is not in it, the casting director was obviously instructed to look for "a cross between Chris Hemsworth and Liam Hemsworth". El Gordonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-33893825574599495862014-01-05T08:42:03.903-05:002014-01-05T08:42:03.903-05:00Is a bit late but ... Happy New Year to all of you...Is a bit late but ... Happy New Year to all of you! I wasn´t here for a while.<br /><br />Andrew, your idea for the opening is intriguing and a vast improvement over what we got. Makes you wonder who writes these movies and what are they getting paid for? <br /><br /><i>"Also, rather than doing this stupid EMP, how about going with a very real danger -- Chinese chips in American weapon's systems? Imagine if they have a kill code that destroys the chip upon receipt."</i><br /><br />Reminds me of the Battlestar Galactica pilot. The Cylons sabotage the defense networks and reduce the most modern ships to cannon fodder. <br />Pilots helpless in their drifting ships. It was very scary and effective. <br /><br />There may a reason why it can´t work like that but most people won´t know it. We know for a fact that the Chinese have been thinking about unorthodox lines of attack. We also know we are overly dependent on GPS... El Gordonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-83630092173976380932014-01-04T13:15:21.567-05:002014-01-04T13:15:21.567-05:00T-Rav, You mean Chris Helmsworth doesn't do it...T-Rav, You mean Chris Helmsworth doesn't do it for you?tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-30125436355047401652014-01-04T12:34:54.017-05:002014-01-04T12:34:54.017-05:00Andrew, one thing on the EMP critique--I've do...Andrew, one thing on the EMP critique--I've done a little reading into it, and if the pulse came from a heavy-duty bomb, it could probably knock out most electrical equipment, plugged in or no. And though most primary military infrastructure has been hardened against an EMP by now, the same can't be said for a lot of secondary stuff, because there's so much of it and funding's a pain in the neck, etc. <br /><br />As far as the most important points go, however, you're right, because so much of our military is overseas and would be unaffected, and quickly turn the offending country into a crater. So yeah. <br /><br />I didn't watch the remake, which I suspected would be all angsty and crap. Besides, it falls subject to the usual rule--unless there's something that makes it compellingly different, why would you watch the remake when you can watch the original?T-Ravhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10861218035729479354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-72429900389703632242014-01-04T01:49:21.198-05:002014-01-04T01:49:21.198-05:00Jed, You chose wisely. It's not that it's...Jed, You chose wisely. It's not that it's a horrible film, it's just a pointless, forgettable film.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-22325753835381222442014-01-04T01:48:49.325-05:002014-01-04T01:48:49.325-05:00Eric, Your comment gave me a thought. Do you know...Eric, Your comment gave me a thought. Do you know how this film would have worked much better? Open with a bright light on the horizon that looks like it could be an atomic bomb. Then all the power goes out. No internet, no news, no nothing. Spend some time watching the people struggle to deal with not being able to get online or call their friends etc. Grocery stores and gas stations with shortages. This would set up the movie really well because (1) it's the modern fear (and could actually support a movie all by itself... see TV show "Revolution"), (2) it would be incredibly disruptive, and (3) it takes the audience out of the comfort zone and make the unbelievable more believable.<br /><br />Rumors begin of more bombs. The authorities struggle to control a city in a panic.<br /><br />Then the Korean/Russian/Chinese troops roll into town dressed like American soldiers. They take over and you see house to house searches for guns, people shot on their doorsteps, leaders rounded up, traitors, etc. That's when the kids bolt into the woods and begin to fight back.<br /><br />There's your set up. That give you a sense of isolation. It gives you a hint of how this could have started in a way that made more sense. And it lets you dribble out information throughout the film to explain it.<br /><br />Then you just need to focus on the "growing up fast" story to make the characters work.<br /><br />Also, rather than doing this stupid EMP, how about going with a very real danger -- Chinese chips in American weapon's systems? Imagine if they have a kill code that destroys the chip upon receipt.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-2880864318826555202014-01-04T01:34:58.014-05:002014-01-04T01:34:58.014-05:00There's just no lack of impending, or I guess ...There's just no lack of impending, or I guess overhanging would be a better description, doom in the remake like AP mentioned there was in the original. There really can't be anymore, either, at least not without denying our lives are more global on so many levels. We can talk almost instantly with someone on the other side of the world; we can own something from in another corner of it in a matter of hours or days; the USA is far less homogenous than it was thirty years ago (for better and worse); etc.<br /><br />Throw in the rest of what AP (and others) mentioned, and voila: who really cares what fate ultimately befalls Thor, Tyra and Co.? However, I will still always shed a tear when Jed breathes his last.EricPhttp://www.threedonia.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-73306849848476799962014-01-03T23:55:53.636-05:002014-01-03T23:55:53.636-05:00Andrew - I saw the original and enjoyed it. Maybe ...Andrew - I saw the original and enjoyed it. Maybe not as sold on the believability aspect as you, but agree, hardly an impossible stretch. Never saw or wanted to see the remake, and your review tells me I chose wisely.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-82382754148785223282014-01-03T22:16:24.293-05:002014-01-03T22:16:24.293-05:00Cool, thanks!Cool, thanks!AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-33364998312357746072014-01-03T22:13:20.887-05:002014-01-03T22:13:20.887-05:00For anyone interested in the double feature experi...For anyone interested in the double feature experience, both versions of this are currently available on Netflix streaming.tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-22995601984418188232014-01-03T20:21:36.026-05:002014-01-03T20:21:36.026-05:00Koshcat, You could string together a story that mi...Koshcat, You could string together a story that might be plausible about an invasion, but this story didn't really care. They just made up a <i>deus ex machina</i> to shut down our entire military and then pretended the Koreans could pull it off.<br /><br />Here's your link: <a href="http://youtu.be/JWk5nnxc3Yk" rel="nofollow">LINK</a>AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-78431770119146387282014-01-03T20:08:15.269-05:002014-01-03T20:08:15.269-05:00I haven't seen the new one but I always liked ...I haven't seen the new one but I always liked the original. Again, another movie that really didn't need a remake. It was fine as it was. <br /><br />A game "Homefront" came out a couple years ago with the premise of the US being occupied by Koreans. What I find interesting is that it sounds like they did a better job forming a back story than the new Red Dawn movie did. It is a little fantastical but a little scary at the same time: <br /><br />http://youtu.be/JWk5nnxc3Yk<br /><br />Koshcathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00552108950848576633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-37691296534704345072014-01-03T19:10:27.036-05:002014-01-03T19:10:27.036-05:00The ads look pretty decent. I'll give it a sh...The ads look pretty decent. I'll give it a shot.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-80198336955442170022014-01-03T19:08:57.010-05:002014-01-03T19:08:57.010-05:00Be sure to check out Lone Survivor when it opens w...Be sure to check out Lone Survivor when it opens wide next week. Very Black Hawk Down vibe, and Peter Berg's got his mojo back after the meh Battleship. Most definitely ditched the moral equivalency of The Kingdom, too.EricPhttp://www.threedonia.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-37198686579173730502014-01-03T19:02:16.113-05:002014-01-03T19:02:16.113-05:00Thanks Eric. The original really does grab you, e...Thanks Eric. The original really does grab you, especially if you grew up under Reagan and you recall the constant threat the Russians posed... and the liberals doing their best to disarm us. It also touches upon the American spirit in a way that few movies do. I firmly believe that anyone who invaded this country would be shocked at how many average Americans would be right out there defending this country.<br /><br />On the new one, sadly, Hollywood's motto seems to be "Your first duty is to not offend," unless the piece is a political hit piece aimed at conservatives. It makes for some very, very dull films. I can't think of any period in film history where Hollywood has been less willing to actually tell an engaging story.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-14132517520759237112014-01-03T18:56:32.772-05:002014-01-03T18:56:32.772-05:00Nicely compared/contrasted, AP. The original is be...Nicely compared/contrasted, AP. The original is beyond near and dear to my heart, and watch it every Independence Day at minimum. As for the update, only gripe I'd add to yours is Adrianne Palicki wore too much in the clothes department (fortunately have her work on Friday Night Lights to rectify that).<br /><br />>> But that is the new thinking in Hollywood -- don't offend the Chinese. >><br /><br />... or the gay lobby ... or minorities ... or Islam ... etc. and on and on unless you're Republican and/or or Christian.EricPhttp://www.threedonia.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-43289720955166619662014-01-03T18:41:53.853-05:002014-01-03T18:41:53.853-05:00Scott, I had low expectations as well and this cam...Scott, I had low expectations as well and this came in right about where I expected -- watchable (once) but pointless. It's too bad they didn't either follow the original storylines to give it some feeling or try something new and exciting to give it some punch. Instead, it feels very mechanical.<br /><br />As for the original, I've always had a love-hate relationship with it. I love the film. It's really well done, I love the characters, and it's a real classic. It's also probably one of the few true "cold war" films that wasn't unbearably cynical. On the other hand, it makes me kind of sick to think of my country (Colorado in particular) invaded.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-28137481282797752172014-01-03T16:55:47.330-05:002014-01-03T16:55:47.330-05:00Loved the original Red Dawn, it's a classic an...Loved the original Red Dawn, it's a classic and will always bring a smile to my face when I see it. <br /><br />I was annoyed at the change from Chinese to North Korea as the bad guys as it sucked any left over credibility the story can have in this day in age as opposed to the original plot not being to far fetched. But I loved the original so I was going to see it, just not at the cinema, after the release I didn't hear much about it so when I got the chance to see it I had zero expectations. <br /><br />And as I have talked about before, with very low expectations come a lot less disappointment. I didn't hate this, as mentioned it looked good and the action looked good but as mentioned in the article the story which made the original so good was gutted and it was hard to care about the characters. <br /><br />Oh well, at least I didn't expect anything more.<br /><br />Scott.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-3513023518841324032014-01-03T16:31:00.206-05:002014-01-03T16:31:00.206-05:00Watchable and not much more is a good way to descr...Watchable and not much more is a good way to describe this film.<br /><br />Thor is the leader -- Hemsworth. He plays the older brother (and the combat hardened Marine).<br /><br />I think you're right that this is typical Hollywood "Hero Saves the World" syndrome. Heaven forbid that a character not save the whole world in a film anymore.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-512787537940812182014-01-03T16:00:23.291-05:002014-01-03T16:00:23.291-05:00I saw both films... the first is awesome
I though...I saw both films... the first is awesome<br /><br />I thought in the second film that is was not just an EMP bomb but a virus that took out the communications programming capabilities. Essentially screwing up the IP protocols shutting off the internet. If you could do that effectively it would be a good weapon but then again subway would not still be in business swiping credit cards so even that does not work in the film.<br /><br />The whole steal a phone thing is the "Hero saves the World" escalation that Hollywood movies suffer from today. It is not enough that the Wolverines slow down the Colorado enemy troops and boost morale by their successes as in the first one. In the second one they have to go James Bond on us and do something to end the war by "stealing the secret phone".<br /><br />The only thing I will give the second movie over the first is that the death of Thor (that is the military kid right - I forget the names) showed the Fog of Chaos of Vary very well. He was the leader everyone rallied around and pop he gets shot in head just like that throwing everyone into disarray. That gives you a sense of the desperation of warfare as you inve4st in this guy as the action hero that leads everyone to safety and in real war he can be removed in an instant.<br /><br />Other than that though I'd have to agree with you Andrew. Movie was watchable but that is about it.Individualisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11005025873042230314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-21091028486659681612014-01-03T14:02:00.301-05:002014-01-03T14:02:00.301-05:00PikeBishop, It could have been shorter. :)PikeBishop, It could have been shorter. :)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.com