tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post1830728815668324240..comments2024-03-05T21:05:36.848-05:00Comments on CommentaramaFilms: Screw The Cat, Save The FilmAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-6775765940759218772014-04-03T18:18:58.351-04:002014-04-03T18:18:58.351-04:00wulfscott, It definitely seems to be a problem tha...wulfscott, It definitely seems to be a problem that some of these guys just don't have any ability to cut their scenes. That's often a problem for writers, that they refuse to remove anything they include for some reason. When they don't have an editor to take that stuff out, then their books(films) become bloated and strange.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-37406884710821254842014-04-03T18:13:24.884-04:002014-04-03T18:13:24.884-04:00By lack of budget or time constraints I mean that ...By lack of budget or time constraints I mean that the filmmakers can make the film as long as they want (no time constraint), can spend tens to hundreds of millions (no budget constraint), and have no discipline or story sense (no self-restraint). Constraints lead to choices that have to be made, so the filmmaker has to really think about what adds to the story. wulfscotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01753817510942803189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-6532388513113307582014-04-03T17:52:47.740-04:002014-04-03T17:52:47.740-04:00I think the book may be getting a bad rap. The wo...I think the book may be getting a bad rap. The worst offenders among the filmmakers lack time and budget contraints, they have no self-discipline, and worst, no sense of story. Peter Jackson's The Hobbit has som many examples of all of this - the troll scene that took too long to develop (my attention wandered to the point I didn't care how Jackson resolved that scene) to the escape from the goblin king that should have ended at step two but kept going past step 12 to step whatever-i-don't-care-anymore-will-this-scene-ever-end? <br />George Lucas, of course, does the same - throw everything and the kitchen sink (or refrigerator) into his film because he can. Or remember the Arab swordsman scene from Raiders? Lucas wasn't satisfied with that, he really wanted to film an extended sword fight, so he put one in the Temple of Doom. The Raiders fight is memorable, iconic, and shocking, in a good way - do you remember the first time you saw it? The one in Temple is meh. Been there, done that, and so much better before. <br />wulfscotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01753817510942803189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-22400329065247250492014-04-03T11:02:52.286-04:002014-04-03T11:02:52.286-04:00Joel, Yeah, that's always stupid. I will say ...Joel, Yeah, that's always stupid. I will say though that you don't see that much anymore.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-57425730063295711462014-04-03T11:02:30.655-04:002014-04-03T11:02:30.655-04:00Ty, Yeah, sadly, so much is formulaic these days. ...Ty, Yeah, sadly, so much is formulaic these days. That said, part of what has made this a pretty decent "golden age" for television is the lack of formula in so many shows.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-2942977375005487382014-04-03T05:55:21.253-04:002014-04-03T05:55:21.253-04:00If we are going to complain about Movie Reality ve...If we are going to complain about Movie Reality versus Normal Reality, I have a complaint. It involves showing that a 110 lb woman can best a 200 lb man. While it is not an impossibility, it certainly is improbable. Yet, time and again, we see a tiny woman beat into submission a man almost twice her weight. Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-246441118256289272014-04-03T01:50:23.998-04:002014-04-03T01:50:23.998-04:00Sadly formulaic has become the norm. Watching last...Sadly formulaic has become the norm. Watching last night's CSI, I saw a husband and wife police officer banter I thought to myself: "You're gunna get shot." Sure enough 65 seconds later, bang.Ty in TXnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-35529827353810929532014-04-02T22:24:36.842-04:002014-04-02T22:24:36.842-04:00I have tried that and pretty much died a third of ...I have tried that and pretty much died a third of the way through the scene... and I wasn't even swimming.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-28359780874482680532014-04-02T20:43:01.291-04:002014-04-02T20:43:01.291-04:00Do you ever try to hold your breath through underw...Do you ever try to hold your breath through underwater scenes? Cause I do that. Most of those are just as bad. tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-49538374103706825642014-04-02T18:14:21.007-04:002014-04-02T18:14:21.007-04:00tryanmax, The "interminable running sequences...tryanmax, The "interminable running sequences" vastly understates the problem. They aren't running, they are sprinting. They are also hurdling obstacles... like speeding cars, jumping off heights that will shatter a normal person's knees and legs, and fighting minions, trading pinpoint accurate weapon's fire on the run, and running and running and running and running and running.<br /><br />I've actually found myself fast forwarding some of those sequences.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-65832529289572010952014-04-02T17:51:07.258-04:002014-04-02T17:51:07.258-04:00The thing that annoys me are the interminable runn...The thing that annoys me are the interminable running sequences. Especially when the protagonist is supposed to be an everyman. I don't care what kind of shape you are in or how much adrenaline you've got pumping through you, no one can sprint for 20 minutes straight. tryanmaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881154741574720094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-62918538054240132752014-04-02T15:21:41.552-04:002014-04-02T15:21:41.552-04:00Kit, That's true, but it's also a chicken ...Kit, That's true, but it's also a chicken and egg issue. Are you losing interest because of the formulas and cliches or do you just notice them after you lose interest. I would say they cause you to lose interest in the first place because they make everything feel less natural and harder to believe.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-32524977569554322592014-04-02T15:07:05.991-04:002014-04-02T15:07:05.991-04:00I think its when a movie draws you in and keeps yo...I think its when a movie draws you in and keeps you entertained, you forget about any formula they are using but when the movie is bad you start noticing every single formulaic cliché and every little flaw. Kithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01453591141757808708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-73088808828767924402014-04-02T13:43:45.701-04:002014-04-02T13:43:45.701-04:00Scott, That car park thing says they hold a world ...Scott, That car park thing says they hold a world record for speed -- it takes 1 minute and 44 seconds for the elevator to go from the bottom to the top. In the film, it took less than 20 seconds would be my guess... five times faster than reality.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-77600595374220882102014-04-02T13:41:43.387-04:002014-04-02T13:41:43.387-04:00Joel, I've heard that before actually and I th...Joel, I've heard that before actually and I think it's true, that buddy movies are love stories without the sex. In fact, in several instances I know that they changed the gender of one character from what was in the original script and changed a romance into a buddy movie or vice versa. In fact, I just read about that the other day, but I can't think of the name of the movie.<br /><br />It sounds like the book is better as a tool for analyzing scripts than generating them. That's interesting.<br /><br />I can totally see the scenario you paint where the guy is hired to punch up a script and he just takes ideas from this book out of context and just starts adding things to action scenes or throwing in a couple cat saving moments. Unfortunately, it's very human to only follow some of the instructions we are given.<br /><br />I've seen people criticize the book on the basis that the author has only had a couple scripts made into films and that none of those movies was very good. I don't tend to worry about that though because I prefer to examine work on its own merits.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-68081684335895572732014-04-02T13:34:11.601-04:002014-04-02T13:34:11.601-04:00Scott, It is a real place, but it doesn't func...Scott, It is a real place, but it doesn't function like it does in the movie in real life... it can't. For one thing, our level of technology has not yet created strong enough lightweight metal to move around as fast as this thing did. This moves like a robotic arm attaching chips to a motherboard. You can't move a two ton car at the same speed.<br /><br />Secondly, even beyond the silly speed it employs, its motion makes no sense. It basically follows Cruise around and knocks him over every time he gains an advantage in the fight. It doesn't even bother getting cars because it's busy hunting for Cruise.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-47951305674042337882014-04-02T13:17:23.015-04:002014-04-02T13:17:23.015-04:00To be fair, the environment is based on a real pla...To be fair, the environment is based on a <a href="http://www.autostadt.de/en/explore-the-autostadt/car-towers/" rel="nofollow">real place.</a><br /><br />But yeah, I get it. Sounds like a case of too much, too fast.<br /><br />:-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-76702645197226323642014-04-02T13:13:49.187-04:002014-04-02T13:13:49.187-04:00Scott, By definition action scenes are mini-confli...Scott, By definition action scenes are mini-conflicts. The difference is the believability of the conflict.<br /><br />When the <i>Raiders</i> scene starts, we know that Jones needs to eliminate the drivers, steal the truck in mid-motion, and eliminate the troopers in the back of the truck without slowing or stopping. We have no problems with that or whatever they do to fight each other because we expect that. It is the story and it is what you would expect to happen.<br /><br />Thrown into that are two believable and one stupid moment that complicate his plan. The Mercedes symbol bending, the grate on the front of the truck breaking, and the stupid native landing on the hood of the truck and distracting him and the last guy he's fighting.<br /><br />You can accept each of those because (1) we know the symbol isn't strong enough to support a person, (2) the grill already appears broken when he grabs it and (3) they drive into the natives.<br /><br />Hence, the whole thing works.<br /><br />Now compare that to the garage in <i>Ghost Protocol</i>. You have hotshot, impossibly tough Cruise chasing a fat, aging scientist. Yet, the scientist manages to outrace and outfight Cruise because stupid things happen in this crazy video game environment where giant mechanical arms chase Cruise around at impossibly high speeds as they supposedly grab cars and put them on an elevator. All the while everything Cruise needs to grab bounces around from floor to elevator to floor to elevator, always landing on the edge so it can be knocked off or so far beneath a car that Cruise can't reach until the car gets grabbed, at which time the briefcase gets moved again.<br /><br />Everything in <i>Raiders</i> was not only possible, but it was expected. If those guys hadn't come out the back of the truck or the Mercedes symbol hadn't bent, you would have said, "That makes no sense." By comparison, nothing in Cruise's chase makes sense: the old guy would be knocked cold by the stronger, faster Cruise the moment things began, the briefcase would have stopped where it landed and stayed there, the garage wouldn't move so quickly and it wouldn't be following Cruise around, not to mention that someone would have shut off the garage immediately once they saw what was happening, etc.<br /><br />That's the difference -- one makes sense, the other just tosses crap on screen.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-57513389360304568162014-04-02T13:03:59.080-04:002014-04-02T13:03:59.080-04:00He also made a comment that each "buddy movie...He also made a comment that each "buddy movie" is actually a love story with out the sex in it. He has a point. Basically what he did was create a system which could analyze a movie script to find out what is wrong with it and correct it prior to shooting. He uses it prior to writing his own scripts. <br /><br />I could easily see that an executive gets a notion about a certain script then assigns a writer to punch it up. The writer, having recently bought this book, sees only one item in the book he can relate to, the index cards plus cork board and increasing conflict with each card. Something easy to mimic and do. Punches up the script with more conflict/obstacles and voila! The executive is now onto other projects and has no more time with this certain script, but the project had been green-lighted, how? Magic! When it becomes a flop, the writer, when asked, said he used "Save the Cat" and his formula. It should have worked. <br /><br />If the new writer had used the cork board, he may have been able to save it by cutting the chase scene completely or making it all one beat and look elsewhere in the script for the perceived problem the executive found. It could have been an excellent script, but the executive, for one reason or another, didn't like it.<br /><br />Also, the author has sold a lot of scripts to Hollywood. However, I have only seen one movie. "Stop! Or my Mom will Shoot!" A not especially spectacular vehicle for Sylvester Stallone and Estelle Getty. The book is excellent for analyzing a movie according to beats. As to creating a new script......<br /><br />Joel Farnhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-3351290951453128372014-04-02T12:58:35.996-04:002014-04-02T12:58:35.996-04:00Jed, On copies, that's true. But it's the...Jed, On copies, that's true. But it's the execution that matters. So long as your execution feels different, it doesn't matter if you copy something. Unfortunately, Hollywood is now copying the execution styles of other films. That's a problem.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-21849719634645631932014-04-02T12:57:59.974-04:002014-04-02T12:57:59.974-04:00Andrew -
Someone (or several someones) once said...Andrew - <br /><br />Someone (or several someones) once said that a great actions scene is a series of mini-conflicts. The <i>Raiders</i> truck chase being a great example.<br /><br />I suppose it's a difference between obstacles created by characters vs. obstacles created out of thin air...?<br /><br />And certain things can go either way - is it more believable that the magic briefcase falls over the ledge? Or is it more believable that it's perched just close enough for the hero to get it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-46292926873162958922014-04-02T12:57:37.649-04:002014-04-02T12:57:37.649-04:00Jed, I enjoyed Ghost Protocol. I thought it was t...Jed, I enjoyed <i>Ghost Protocol</i>. I thought it was the best since the first and I thought they did a lot right (as you say, all Tom Cruise films are slick and fast and generally watchable). It did, however, trigger this thought to me as I watched the garage scene in particular. I just kept thinking, "Oh come on, this is getting stupid." Worse though, was <i>A Good Day To Die Hard</i> in the annoying stupid car chase. You could tell that even the actors weren't buying it.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-64475500740822508462014-04-02T12:51:39.536-04:002014-04-02T12:51:39.536-04:00Jason, That article is the first time I became awa...Jason, That article is the first time I became aware of this book.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-16789368395420471072014-04-02T12:50:34.292-04:002014-04-02T12:50:34.292-04:00Hollywood, be it t.v. or films is famous for their...Hollywood, be it t.v. or films is famous for their copycat mentality. Just look at the pitch men. "I have an idea for a new series which will be Top Gun meets A Few Good Men." We'll call it J.A.G.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-67819575045250689942014-04-02T12:50:30.950-04:002014-04-02T12:50:30.950-04:00Mycroft, Rowlings was never subtle at any point in...Mycroft, Rowlings was never subtle at any point in the series. Everything she did was cliches, stereotypes done to excess, and pound you over the head storylines.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.com