tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post1254951698332032362..comments2024-03-05T21:05:36.848-05:00Comments on CommentaramaFilms: Politics of Trek: “The Way To Eden”AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-53657978261808456952012-01-27T12:40:06.604-05:002012-01-27T12:40:06.604-05:00Yes Jim, that the other problem with following a n...Yes Jim, that the other problem with following a nutty leader... you often end up dead waiting for the comet to take you home.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-21977430046079467122012-01-27T01:18:20.832-05:002012-01-27T01:18:20.832-05:00Andrew
I am confused. You act as if the ending o...Andrew<br /><br />I am confused. You act as if the ending of this film was a bad thing...<br /><br /><br />Hey look they did not even have to make any Kool AidJim Jonesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-29528755104455637172012-01-25T01:38:33.273-05:002012-01-25T01:38:33.273-05:00Ben, I think by the time the hippie movement was a...Ben, I think by the time the hippie movement was absorbed by the radicals, whatever innocence it had was gone.<br /><br />That said, even innocence can't save you from folly. And things like the commune system just don't work because they run counter to human nature. And chief among the problems are the free loaders. Moreover, the other problem with the "drop out" lifestyle is that it eventually leaves you without a means of support, which leads to criminal behavior and I understand the hippies were beset by that.<br /><br />In terms of truth and duties/dignity, I agree with you that it's all interrelated. There are universal truths, particularly about human nature and we ignore those truths at our own peril.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-81730318320833197382012-01-24T23:41:47.193-05:002012-01-24T23:41:47.193-05:00Re: hippies, I don't wanna imply they were as ...Re: hippies, I don't wanna imply they were as bad as the OWSers because they weren't. <br />They had their share of freeloaders though, particularly after that movement got unsurped by the commies, neocommies and socialists.<br /><br />However, the authentic hippies learned rather quickly that their idea of a peaceful commune at one with nature doesn't work.<br /><br />It required significantly more than 8 hour (hard labor) workdays especially since not everyone in the commune produced the same amount of work or whatever.<br /><br />But at least they had the dignity not to blame everyone else in society for their failure to usher in utopia.<br /><br />Well, most did. But the OWSers are several magnitudes worse than the worst hippies.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-33045510401542795212012-01-24T23:33:13.485-05:002012-01-24T23:33:13.485-05:00I just read this at my friend Gagdad Bob's sit...I just read this at my friend Gagdad Bob's site and I think it's a good addendum to this discussion:<br /><br />"Truth is both timeless and universal, so that what is true will always be so. Scientific fads and fashions will come and go, but Man will always be in the image of the Creator, a meta-cosmic truth from which our rights, our duties, and our dignity flow. An undignified man has no rights, and a man with no rights has no dignity. Likewise, a man with no obligations is not a man. (We are not speaking legalistically, of course, but morally, or better, ontologically.)<br /><br />Man's obligations are prior to his rights, for if the reverse is true, man makes himself a god. This is the upside-down god of the left, for it is the undignified man who is entitled to his rights, which are actually your obligations. But to be forcefully obligated in this manner is to be treated in an undignified manner, so we end in a tyranny of the undignified. See contemporary culture for details."<br /><br />Sums it up well IMO. This applies to all the folks throughout our past (hippies) and including the present (OWSers) that worship at the altar of the Free Lunch and Everything Else and how dare you criticize us because we are victims.<br /><br />Victims of liberty.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-60223643092140301742012-01-24T23:00:08.094-05:002012-01-24T23:00:08.094-05:00Scott, Some of those kids probably have their hear...Scott, Some of those kids probably have their hearts in the right place, but I doubt it. I actually am more inclined to believe that about hippies. The hippies really were genuine and they didn't want anything from other people -- they just wanted to go live a different way.<br /><br />The OWS kids are demanding, arrogant hypocrites. They want money from the government, from the rich and from workers. They think they are entitled to have the benefits of the rules of society but not have to live under those rules. They don't respect other people's rights to disagree with them. And they spew a lot of hate. Anyone who can stand next to someone who is shouting racist and anti-Semitic stuff and still say "yeah, I'm with him" does not have their heart in the right place.<br /><br /><i>Futurama</i> does a great job of attacking hippies.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-38996347862474416482012-01-24T20:57:52.397-05:002012-01-24T20:57:52.397-05:00I've said to friends on more than one occasion...I've said to friends on more than one occasion, re: OWS...<br /><br />"I'm sure some of those kids have their hearts in the right place [after all, they are my peers] but it's a shame you can't protest something without being co-opted by some other entity."<br /><br />Seriously, even if I wanted to, I couldn't protest income inequality without the "People for a Free Palestine" showing up? (I say that with tongue slightly in cheek but I know deep down it's true.) And that's just one example.<br /><br />Oh, and T-Rav, <i>The Simpsons</i> has done its share of hippie-mocking, especially this favorite <a href="http://youtu.be/vEZnI8AaC60" rel="nofollow">clip of mine</a> (do beatniks count?). :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-11154673830785167732012-01-24T19:43:33.725-05:002012-01-24T19:43:33.725-05:00Lawhawk, I will definitely address that one becaus...Lawhawk, I will definitely address that one because it's full of a lot of great conservative messages.<br /><br />Melvi Belli -- what an appropriate choice for a villain! He strikes me as much like Gloria Alred today (only competent).<br /><br />I think you're right that episode would have been very different if it had been written even a year or two later. As it is, it's pretty prescient, especially being written a few months before the 1968 Democratic Convention. And talk about timeless issues, this same episode could be done today with the OWS crowd, only I think the individuals would need to be shown as much nastier and more materialistic than the hippies were.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-46215932985338824572012-01-24T19:18:21.696-05:002012-01-24T19:18:21.696-05:00Since you asked--Yeah, I was certainly around for ...Since you asked--Yeah, I was certainly around for the hippies, and the discussion of this episode very much fits the period. The Summer of Love was just having its nationwide impact, the hippies hadn't been lulled into the anti-American version of the peace movement, and Haight-Ashbury was still a tourist novelty. The warning about charismatic leaders was built around naive youth rather than the later vicious coopting of the hippies by the SDS, Student Non-Violent Co-Ordinating Committee, Weathermen, etc. That episode probably would have been written quite differently just a few short years later. <br /><br />I hope T-Rav and Andrew will be doing a review of "And the Children Shall Lead" which involves innocent young people suffering a great personal loss who are then mesmerized by a ghostly and evil presence named Gorgan (played, appropriately enough, by celebrity lawyer and King of Torts Melvin Belli). Again, the charismatic leader who plays on the innocence and malleability of the very young.LawHawkRFDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17800255923675295515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-51912373416909274652012-01-24T19:05:45.802-05:002012-01-24T19:05:45.802-05:00Thanks Ben! I really appreciate that! :)
On your ...Thanks Ben! I really appreciate that! :)<br /><br />On your Tea Party point, I agree entirely. Sadly, many conservatives fall for the charismatic leader just as liberals fall for it. The Tea Party people generally (though not all) haven't fallen for this and that's something I truly respect. They seem to have grasped that they must put their faith in their ideas and not in a single person. And I think you're right that part of this is that they realize America will need more than one person to fix it. And relying on just one person not only won't work, but can kill the movement if that person proves unreliable.<br /><br />I also agree entirely about the idea of being "passionately dispassionate." I think a lot of people don't get that. It's important to be passionate in your goals, but it's vital to be dispassionate in analyzing your methods. In other words, it is vital to believe in something better, but it's equally vital to let our brains and not our hearts chart the course for us to get there.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-2300369595376937382012-01-24T18:52:29.567-05:002012-01-24T18:52:29.567-05:00Well said Andrew!
I really appreciate how condens...Well said Andrew!<br /><br />I really appreciate how condensed and clear you are able to write.<br />That's a cool talent! :^)USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-83701208157678004502012-01-24T18:46:49.574-05:002012-01-24T18:46:49.574-05:00BTW, it should be noted that some conservatives ar...BTW, it should be noted that some conservatives are vulnerable to charismatic, messiah-like leaders too when they forget or ignore reality.<br /><br />This is one of the reasons I liked the TEA Party movement.<br />Unfortunately, some of the TEA Partiers have adopted leaders or pinned theiir hopes onto specific politicians which is a huge mistake.<br /><br />Becoming "attached" or invested whole hog in politicians never ends well.<br />They ain't called cults of personality for nothing.<br /> <br />No one person is gonna fix the problems America faces. <br />Even Reagan had flaws and we must remember we rarely get leaders of Reagan's caliber.<br /><br />I believe it's extemely important to be passionately dispassionate in the choices we make.<br /><br />Not saying deny our emotions. Just that our emotions should be mastered by our minds.<br /><br />The Space Hippies were mastered by their emotions and easily manipulated by Sevrin.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-67627678625035742052012-01-24T18:42:56.683-05:002012-01-24T18:42:56.683-05:00Ben, "cosmically offroad" -- LOL!
Thank...Ben, "cosmically offroad" -- LOL!<br /><br />Thanks! I'm glad you like the analysis. I think this episode contains a very conservative moral and principles. And I agree it's a memorable episode. What's funny to me is how many people dismiss the seriousness of the episode simply because it deals with hippies. Clearly, they are missing the underlying story.<br /><br />I think you're right about the hippie movement in general. Something like that is just too strong a target for people to exploit. The problem with utopian thinking is that it rarely recognizes the evil aspects of our natures. Thus, it dismisses or ignores the danger in its midsts and it fails to guard itself against people who would exploit the movement. And I'm not just talking about hippies. I'm talking about any group that ignores the darker side of human nature and which puts its trust in leaders rather than laws. The more power you give someone, the greater the likelihood they will abuse it.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-23548796012184165392012-01-24T18:32:40.867-05:002012-01-24T18:32:40.867-05:00Excellent analysis Andrew!
You nailed how conser...Excellent analysis Andrew! <br /><br />You nailed how conservative it is, or rather the core conservative principles within it and what happens when one tries to go cosmically offroad (materially, mentally and spiritually) without a good plan (mentally looks kind of funny doesn't it?).<br /><br />This was a very memorable episode for me.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-14729574819473803542012-01-24T18:26:45.423-05:002012-01-24T18:26:45.423-05:00T-Rav said...
I'm still trying to wrap my hea...T-Rav said... <br />I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that there was a show on network TV that criticized hippies. Who'da thunk it?<br /><br />And they did it by letting the hippies do it themselves.<br />Like the OWSers. Simply watching them reveals the gaping flaws in their movement and the dangers of the pacifists attracting predator leaders (or predators in general)...just like the OWSers.<br /><br />Not only did this episode show the dangers of being fully invested in a cult leader but it also showed how silly the hippie movement was at its core.<br /><br />Where does such idealistic thinking without taking into account reality lead to?<br /><br />It always leads to death in one way or another. That's the "eden" they create and it doesn't matter how good their intentions are.<br /><br />And the sheeple are not aware of it because they are in denial of reality.<br /><br />Communes and becoming one with the land looks good on paper but it doesn't work well for very long and it isn't difficult to see why.<br /><br />Many hippies became disillusioned the hard way when they discovered the real dangers of denying reality and, ultimately truth.<br /><br />I was 6 years old when this episode aired and even at that age I wondered why the space hippies didn't listen to Spock and Kirk.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-14734402112884328952012-01-24T16:00:12.761-05:002012-01-24T16:00:12.761-05:00rlaWTX, I think those are good points. On the one...rlaWTX, I think those are good points. On the one hand, Hollywood was "liberal" not progressive at that point. Also, even liberals were more conservative at that point.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-71344324131253292552012-01-24T15:46:05.500-05:002012-01-24T15:46:05.500-05:00Then vs Now:
When everyone was more conservative t...Then vs Now:<br />When everyone was more conservative than they are now, it's probably not hard to find conservative themes by today's standards. <br /><br />And the establishment - even if the libs were already running H'Wood - hadn't adopted the hippie movement as espousing their defining principles yet...rlaWTXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09319344164726195144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-81638273831088160442012-01-24T14:34:40.153-05:002012-01-24T14:34:40.153-05:00Jed, Yeah, that would have helped!
I am curious w...Jed, Yeah, that would have helped!<br /><br />I am curious what the story would have been with McCoy's daughter involved? I could guess: maybe a cult-deprogramming sort of thing? But I guess we'll never know unless somehow it got saved and ultimately gets released.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-83358632462369017202012-01-24T14:24:54.063-05:002012-01-24T14:24:54.063-05:00I was going to mention I looked up the D.C. Fontan...I was going to mention I looked up the D.C. Fontana connection about McCoy's daughter, but find Scott already did so. The other person involved in the re-write apparently is an ex-Disney animator involved in Fantasia who turned to writing. He should have been around for your debate thread last night.Tennessee Jedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-90317333059561569872012-01-24T13:46:38.708-05:002012-01-24T13:46:38.708-05:00Scott, I've read that, that she didn't lik...Scott, I've read that, that she didn't like the way they twisted the script around. I don't know what her original script involved, but this one turned out well enough. It's memorable despite being right at the end of the series, by which time things were falling apart and some of the scripts were getting a little weird.<br /><br />In any event, I do think the conservatism/classic liberalism continues to shine through in all the themes. Kirk never loses his character nor does the overall moral of the story. And I think its timing is pretty neat, being the year the "peace movement" went to war with the Democratic convention.<br /><br />Also, this I think it's fascinating that at a time when Hollywood was drifting into modern liberalism and hippies were the rage, this show actually cast a warning. I doubt modern Hollywood would be as prescient.<br /><br />Is this my favorite? Hardly. But it's an excellent example of the types of conservative themes that dominate the series.<br /><br />I like Napier a lot. He was in many shows and I always enjoyed his addition.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-82802599817092416572012-01-24T13:36:24.274-05:002012-01-24T13:36:24.274-05:00Andrew -
Not only did the late Charles Napier pl...Andrew - <br /><br />Not only did the late Charles Napier play a hippie in this episode but I believe he even wrote one or two of the songs (and of course, he showed up later in <i>DS9</i> as a military man).<br /><br />There isn't much background info at Memory Alpha or Wikipedia for this episode but apparently D.C. Fontana didn't like the way her original script was re-written and used the pseudonym "Michael Richards" instead.<br /><br />The original script was titled "Johanna" and was about McCoy's daughter. I don't know if this version included the hippies or if they were added later.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-28236908147035722632012-01-24T13:27:08.684-05:002012-01-24T13:27:08.684-05:00Ed, In fact, he has my favorite line from the Blue...Ed, In fact, he has my favorite line from the <i>Blues Brothers</i>: "you're gonna look real funny trying to eat corn on the cob with no f**ing teeth!"<br /><br />Good question about older shows. Some of them definitely strike me as conservative or classically liberal rather than liberal. I think <i>The Twilight Zone</i> largely fell into that category. I know many of the sitcoms from the 1950s and 1960s were rather conservative. I haven't dug into it, but I suspect there was a lot of conservatism in Hollywood at the time, even despite the overwhelming presence of liberals.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-50878169172719753722012-01-24T13:20:30.847-05:002012-01-24T13:20:30.847-05:00I agree with Joel about the music. I thought it w...I agree with Joel about the music. I thought it was pretty good. And love the fact one of the hippies is one of the Good Old Boys from the Blues Brothers!<br /><br />Excellent analysis as always of the conservatism. I wonder how many other older shows were actually conservative an no one noticed?Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18122308626703654554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-70883523288799690872012-01-24T13:17:52.670-05:002012-01-24T13:17:52.670-05:00rlaWTX, All the kids will be wearing them soon. ;)...rlaWTX, All the kids will be wearing them soon. ;)AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-5030457397401866322012-01-24T13:16:36.599-05:002012-01-24T13:16:36.599-05:00those are some amazing ears.
[I only vaguely reme...those are some amazing ears.<br /><br />[I only vaguely remember this one, so no other specific comments.]rlaWTXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09319344164726195144noreply@blogger.com