tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post1155690856177807805..comments2024-03-05T21:05:36.848-05:00Comments on CommentaramaFilms: Why Hollywood Doesn't Care About American ConsumersAndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-32498717771136730302011-07-11T16:31:51.292-04:002011-07-11T16:31:51.292-04:00Anon, Sorry about that. For some reason it delete...Anon, Sorry about that. For some reason it deleted your comment rather than publishing it.<br /><br />You said:<br /><br /><i>What many don't realize is that you aren't paying for effects, actors etc. You are paying for the flops. </i><br /><br /><br /><br />And that's a good point. You are paying for all films the studios make.AndrewPricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-4718713515659350342011-03-16T16:08:24.212-04:002011-03-16T16:08:24.212-04:00I don't disagree with your conclusions, Andrew...I don't disagree with your conclusions, Andrew so much as I lament them. Still, I feel like something is missing here. Isn't the middle American market lucrative (see "Blind Side." In old America, there would be somebody waiting to hop all over an underserved market of that sizw.Tennessee Jedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-24615380298671793192011-03-16T16:19:07.882-04:002011-03-16T16:19:07.882-04:00Jed, I lament this too -- I'm not happy about ...Jed, I lament this too -- I'm not happy about it.<br><br>In terms of Middle America being lucrative, I <i>think</i> they view it this way:<br><br>1. The American market is largely teenagers. American teenagers aren't particular and will accept what we are selling overseas.<br><br>2. Foreign markets are particular and don't want the things mentioned in the article.<br><br>3. Thus, we can cater to the foreign market without turning off the American market.<br><br>4. And while there is the possibility of a huge hit like <i>The Blind Side</i> or <i>Passion of the Christ</i> if we paid more attention to American wants, those are rare and impossible to predict.<br><br>5. Thus, the safe strategy is to make lowest-common denominator stuff that appeals to Asian kids, which the American kids will buy, and leave the surprise hits to smaller studios or dumb luck.<br><br>In other words, they generally shoot for the broadest market possible, and don't worry about trying to hit homeruns.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-45397041493780490912011-03-16T16:29:51.262-04:002011-03-16T16:29:51.262-04:00Andrew, since your main topic depresses me, I'...Andrew, since your main topic depresses me, I'll ignore it, and instead focus on your last question: Was Star Wars a rip-off from The Wizard of Oz? The answer to that is no. Because The Wizard of Oz did not have power converters.T_Ravnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-59910790683328282532011-03-16T16:43:41.472-04:002011-03-16T16:43:41.472-04:00T_Rav, Nice answer! I'm serious though, it hi...T_Rav, Nice answer! I'm serious though, it hit me the other night that Lucas may have based <i>Star Wars</i> on TWOZ. Yikes!! We even had a tin man in C-3PO, and possibly a cowardly lion in Ben Kenobi. Arrgg.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-91728843887011478212011-03-16T17:01:17.220-04:002011-03-16T17:01:17.220-04:00Well, I'm middle America and I don't reall...Well, I'm middle America and I don't really care about Hollywood much, so does that make us even? ;)<br><br>But, yes, this would explain why films seem to be getting worse. It could be a never-ending declining cycle.<br><br>And also, are you saying the tie-fighters = flying monkeys??CrispyRicehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07302075204880024936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-5614335475301535602011-03-16T17:13:36.143-04:002011-03-16T17:13:36.143-04:00Crispy, I had that very thought in fact.... flying...Crispy, I had that very thought in fact.... flying tie-fighter monkeys. Arrg.<br><br>In terms of your perception of movies, I suspect that's probably right. I'm betting that this trend started long before we realized it and that's why they've been turning out such bland junk these days.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-15783212259958060702011-03-16T17:15:13.508-04:002011-03-16T17:15:13.508-04:00As an aside, before anyone gets too depressed, thi...As an aside, before anyone gets too depressed, this might actually be a market opportunity for conservatives. If Hollywood refuses to do comedies and pro-American type films, and there is clearly a market for such things, then maybe conservatives can fill it by getting into independent films and making those kinds of films there?AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-1786941961902419662011-03-16T17:42:25.333-04:002011-03-16T17:42:25.333-04:00Andrew, how DARE you call Ben Kenobi a cowardly li...Andrew, how DARE you call Ben Kenobi a cowardly lion! If anything, old Ben was closer to Glenda, the Good Witch of the South, than the Cowardly Lion, a role C-3PO could also fill. What a terrible thing to say. <br><br>And I totally agree with Crispy: TIE fighters=flying monkeys.T_Ravnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-83744674994006522592011-03-16T17:47:59.055-04:002011-03-16T17:47:59.055-04:00T_Rav, Good point about Ben Kenobi being Glenda.Cl...T_Rav, Good point about Ben Kenobi being Glenda.<br><br>Clearly, Luke is Dorothy, R2D2 is Toto, and .... arrrrgh.<br><br>You see my point? Once you start thinking about it, pieces start falling into place, and that's just bothering me something fierce. :-(AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-79747118688966442222011-03-16T17:50:18.506-04:002011-03-16T17:50:18.506-04:00UPDATE:To back up the point in the article, John N...<b>UPDATE:</b>To back up the point in the article, John Nolte just put out a piece about MGM demanding that the producers of the new <i>Red Dawn</i> remove the Chinese from the film -- who apparently were the villains. Want to guess why?<br><br><a href="http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmnolte/2011/03/16/the-new-production-code-mgm-scrubs-china-from-red-dawn-remake/" rel="nofollow">LINK</a>AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-63767743782480297502011-03-16T18:04:43.658-04:002011-03-16T18:04:43.658-04:00This does not make me happy. I feel like I should...This does not make me happy. I feel like I should have known something was up when films started getting ultra-shallow. I thought Hollywood had just lost it's deeper writers. Who know it was the suits.<br><br>On "Star Wars" being Oz, nah nah nah I can't hear you! Just kidding. I can see what you're saying and it wouldn't surprise me if Lucas used something the Wiz as his basic story. I'd always heard it was a take off from a Japanese film?DUQnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-88209730834697060792011-03-16T18:06:28.834-04:002011-03-16T18:06:28.834-04:00DUQ, Yeah, it's supposed to be based on a Kuro...DUQ, Yeah, it's supposed to be based on a Kurosawa film, <i>The Hidden Fortress.</i> I don't know if there is any connection between <i>Star Wars</i> and the <i>Wizard of Oz</i>, but it's one of those thoughts that comes to you late at night and ruins your life.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-33260175171500232162011-03-16T18:39:09.871-04:002011-03-16T18:39:09.871-04:00Andrew - as to your aside, that was kind of my poi...Andrew - as to your aside, that was kind of my point. There is still a large potentially lucative audience of middle Americans who will support good films aimed at them. If not the current Hollywood group, then somebody else. I do recognize that film making is inherently risky and does require copious quantities of capital, but still . . . <br><br>I've suspected for a long time that Hollywood was making enough foreign revenue to act on ideological matters and cater to other markets .Based on prior conversations, though, I think the international audience piece while big, is not the total answer. Things you have pointed out in the past (e.g. intellectual laziness, etc.) play at least some role.Tennessee Jedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10604275115906776992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-44945399796907997382011-03-16T18:48:41.311-04:002011-03-16T18:48:41.311-04:00Jed, True. I think it's all part of the puzzl...Jed, True. I think it's all part of the puzzle. There's the financial aspect mentioned above, there's intellectual laziness, there's ideology or just living in an echo chamber, etc. I would say all of that together explains the current stake of Hollywood to one degree or another, though no single piece is another on its own.<br><br>In terms of the aside, these situations always create market opportunities and hopefully people will be savvy enough to exploit that. I'd love to see conservatives fill in the gap and become the driving force in making films that Hollywood won't, especially if the categories are as large as "comedies". And with Hollywood having coopted the independent film industry in recent years, the opportunity should be there for people start filling in.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-17434379840488222162011-03-16T18:55:48.754-04:002011-03-16T18:55:48.754-04:00The Wizard of Oz also didn't have Admiral Ackb...<i>The Wizard of Oz</i> also didn't have Admiral Ackbar. :-)<br><br>Re: comedies, I may be wrong but I was under the impression that physical comedies translate well whereas more verbal comedies don't (I assume we're talking about the Asian market; Woody Allen, for example, is still popular in Europe). They talk about this on the <i>Naked Gun</i> DVD commentary: Leslie Nielsen's puns didn't translate at all but the physical gags did.<br><br>Re: American historical films - that's a damn shame but I'm hoping the TV networks pick up the slack. If HBO can give us one <i>John Adams</i>-quality miniseries every year, I'd call that a win-win.<br><br>Re: <i>Red Dawn</i> - I doubt this'll happen but maybe there's a chance the US will get the unedited version and China will get the Koreanized version? Oh, well. There goes my idea for a <i>Get Smart</i> sequel idea involving "The Craw." :-)<br><br>There's got to be some happy medium here. Judging from the trailers, I'm hoping J.J. Abrams has found that medium with <i>Super 8</i>.ScottDShttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15660889617173576835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-40661320842203847412011-03-16T18:57:09.167-04:002011-03-16T18:57:09.167-04:00Andrew,These Hollywood big shots sounds like RINO ...Andrew,<br><br>These Hollywood big shots sounds like RINO Republicans reading pie charts and what not in order to get the Hispanic vote.<br><br>Their "emerging markets" are mostly backwards countries which don't have the internet and no film industry. This is a stop-gap. The markets will last about as long as their internet stays in it's infancy there and the locals don't create their own film industry. <br><br>The studio problem is the same problem Wisconsin has, and the Big Three automakers have. Unions. <br><br>I don't see the studio bosses having the guts to confront and dismantle the unions. They work around the union laws all the time. They think that they have tapped into something that will be ever-lasting with all that implies. <br><br>It isn't going to work in the long run. It never does. Like pandering to Hispanics in a fake accent. After a little bit, the Hispanics catch on and go away. <br><br>About the Star Wars thing. Didn't Dorothy just want to go home? Didn't Luke just want to join the rebellion and hated home?Joel Farnhamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15856960977033430002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-20023724819066614212011-03-16T19:06:43.039-04:002011-03-16T19:06:43.039-04:00Scott, I think Andrew is only referencing "St...Scott, I think Andrew is only referencing "Star Wars: A New Hope," and no others. Because by that token, we could also shoot the comparison down by saying Oz had no Ewoks. But wait...there were Munchkins, weren't there? And they were kind of...Arrghhh. <br><br>Andrew, it helps a little bit that now North Koreans are the villains in "Red Dawn," as opposed to the Chinese beforehand. But then, North Korea's a country everyone can treat as the enemy, whereas China not only does not have universal dislike, but also controls half the world, so it doesn't matter if they're hated or not. Does this mean Patrick Swayze and company lost after all? Double arrghhh.T_Ravnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-35240807630604385942011-03-16T19:13:04.945-04:002011-03-16T19:13:04.945-04:00You're right, but I still just wanted to menti...You're right, but I still just wanted to mention Ackbar. I'm fond of working "It's a trap!" (or a word that rhymes with "trap") into normal conversation. :-)ScottDShttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15660889617173576835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-24196630864950684092011-03-16T19:15:42.470-04:002011-03-16T19:15:42.470-04:00Scott,Star Wars didn't have Adm. Ackbar either...Scott,<br><br><i>Star Wars</i> didn't have Adm. Ackbar either, he came along later.<br><br>On comedies, I am giving you the direct quote in the article about comedies. In terms of translating, I have German relatives and I can tell you that little actually translates -- not only the verbal jokes, but even the physical jokes. They just find different things funny than we do.<br><br>On historical films, you never know. HBO has done a pretty good job so far of stepping right into the gap that Hollywood has been abandoning by providing intelligent films/series. And I guess the more Hollywood abandons, the greater the gap for them to fill in. So maybe, HBO will become the new Hollywood?<br><br>Forget the Craw... they'll never go for that these days, though that was a funny character. From what John Nolte wrote, it sounds really ridiculous to me. It sounds like they let them film it, knowing they wouldn't allow it, and are only now telling them "you can't do this." So who knows, but it sounds like they just want to kill the whole project?<br><br>I would like to believe there's a happy medium, but I have my doubts. The history of this kind of behavior in consumer goods is that once everyone starts shooting for the same "largest chunk" of the market, they stop worrying entirely about niche markets. So I don't think this will turn itself around unless some outsider shows that they're missing huge profits.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-18184532805850277362011-03-16T19:22:10.930-04:002011-03-16T19:22:10.930-04:00Joel, The Oz comparison isn't perfect, but the...Joel, The Oz comparison isn't perfect, but the more I thought about it, the more it started to make sense. . . sadly.<br><br>On the executives, it's all the same thing as RINOs and simply the corporate structure. They look to maximize profit while minimizing risk. That means finding the biggest possible guaranteed audience and giving them what they are likely to buy. It does not allow for creativity or risk taking because risks tend to scare those kinds of markets. It's a triumph of marketing over art. (In politics, it's popularity over principle.)<br><br>I'm sure the unions are a problem in Hollywood for production costs, hence they are seeking to make more films overseas, but this isn't really a union issues, this an issue of targeting audiences and then pandering.<br><br>By the way, did you see Rosie O'Donnell complaining the other day that unions basically caused her Broadway show to close? That was worth a chuckle!AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-45488798751585089832011-03-16T19:23:16.579-04:002011-03-16T19:23:16.579-04:00I came to your article from Big Hollywood. Readin...I came to your article from Big Hollywood. Reading it was one of those DUH! moments. It suddenly made sense. Why dialog is so stilted and lame. Why so many action films take place all over the world. Why we hardly ever have any Chinese antagonists. Why I hate going to movies, especially certain genres. Still, it is a short sighted policy sort of like the McDonald's of movie making. Trying to please everyone and you get tasteless mush. A more long term approach would to have different subdivisions making different films. Also, most of the $150 million movies are crap. Instead make three really good $50 million.<br><br>Star Wars = TWOZ?<br><br>Tin man - Han Solo (no heart)<br>scarecrow - Leia (no brain)<br>Lion - Chewy (no courage) or C3PO<br><br>I don't buy C3PO as tin man, he had a brain but a complete coward. Chewy could also be toto. Emporer as wicked witch (he looked melted)? Yoda as Wizard? I think it is a stretch but all stories borrow themes from previous stories.Koshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-86236148124463207522011-03-16T19:31:48.065-04:002011-03-16T19:31:48.065-04:00T_Rav, Ewoks = Munchins... ** slaps forehead **The...T_Rav, Ewoks = Munchins... <i>** slaps forehead **</i><br><br>The problem with the North Koreans though, is that no one takes them seriously (at least no one beyond South Korea). I can't conceive of them taking over a 7-11 in LA, much less the Western United States.<br><br>But you are correct, it is acceptable to hate them.AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-64439289048998424552011-03-16T19:38:56.191-04:002011-03-16T19:38:56.191-04:00Kosh, Welcome and thanks for the comment. It is k...Kosh, Welcome and thanks for the comment. It is kind of a "duh" moment, isn't it? For several years now, movies have seemed to be getting simpler and simpler and the dialog has been getting dumber and dumber. At first, it just seemed like a bit of a rut, but this puts a whole new complexion on it -- and it's not a happy discovery.<br><br>I agree about it being short-sighted too. I think they're looking to maximize profit with minimum risk. But risk is what movie making is all about. Risk is what brought us most of the great pictures that made Hollywood so special. All they're doing now is making B-movies with A-movie budgets. And if all they do is turn out generic films, as you say "McDonalds of film making," Hollywood's former reputation will slowly fade.<br><br><br>Good point about C3PO! And excellent point on Chewy as the Cowardly Lion. In fact, he kind of looks like a lion and Han Solo does have to push him in a couple situations. I seriously hope we're all reading into this. LOL!AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7059293386881623259.post-44585550010547241472011-03-16T19:39:56.568-04:002011-03-16T19:39:56.568-04:00Scott, I never knew there were any big Adm. Ackbar...Scott, I never knew there were any big Adm. Ackbar fans! LOL!AndrewPricehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11312364467936820986noreply@blogger.com